Help with Grading 1878S Morgan Dollar 0

[RKOL]

My father collected coins back in the 70s and 80s and my family are going through them after years of having them sit in storage. This one coin has me a little stumped. The wrapper it's in has been marked as BU, but I have no way of knowing if this is truly Brilliant Uncirculated or not. If any one could let me know what grade NGC would give it, I would be most grateful.

If more detailed pics are needed, please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[RWB]

Lightly circulated EF.

[RKOL]

Thanks!

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, kudos for your photos being in focus, cropped, and large.   The only drawback is that they are flooded with light and that makes it difficult to evaluate the surfaces very well.   From what I see I think your coin would grade in the AU range, I would call it AU55.

[RKOL]

Thanks! I'll work on getting some better photos tomorrow morning.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/18/2023 at 9:50 PM, RKOL said:

Thanks! I'll work on getting some better photos tomorrow morning.

If you have a smartphone.....make sure the resolution is set to high or moderately high (no 640x480's )....prop the coin up against a book lying flat on a table angled at about 30 degrees....lighting should be behind you or above you and not causing glare.  You shoudl be able to zoom in from about 2 feet away. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[J P M]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:23 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If you have a smartphone.....make sure the resolution is set to high or moderately high (no 640x480's )....prop the coin up against a book lying flat on a table angled at about 30 degrees....lighting should be behind you or above you and not causing glare.  You shoudl be able to zoom in from about 2 feet away. 

No matter what you do taking a shot of a coin in a 2x2 is hard to see the fields on the coin. The coin is nice but no way to know for sure of the quality with the plastic over it.

[RKOL]

Thanks. I've taken a few more pictures. Not sure how much better they are, but I appreciate all the input so far.

[Sandon]

   It can be very difficult to grade coins from any photos, and yours really aren't clear enough to get a good impression of the coin's surfaces. It appears to have at least Extremely Fine and probably About Uncirculated details but appears to have been abrasively and/or chemically "cleaned" as was all too common years ago and reduces its value.  You may want to compare your coin to the high-resolution photos in PCGS Photograde (www.pcgs.com/photograde) for a better determination of at least its "details" grade. (Unfortunately, NGC has no equivalent resource.)

   1878-S Morgan dollars all feature the "Reverse of 1878", which, unlike most coins from 1879 on and all after 1880, have a concave instead of convex eagle's breast and a parallel top arrow feather instead of one that points upward. The concave breast in particular makes grading them a little different.

[Coinbuf]

Your new photos are unfortunately not much better.   Keep in mind that in 1878 the Morgan dollar was a new design and thus many were saved, and from a mintage of almost 10 million coins these are super plentiful and easy to find even in extremely high grade.   I would not change my grade assessment form the new photos, and really it is not that important to pinpoint the grade.   However, if you wish to I would suggest that you review the Photograde resource that is available on the PCGS website, as you have the coin in hand it is often easier to compare it to photos of particular grades.  Pay particular attention to the AU50 thru AU55 grades here is a link to that resource.  Photograde

When it comes to value for an 1878-S the spread from junk silver melt value coins to lowend mint state is very small, only about a $40 difference.   Junk silver Morgan dollars are selling for about $30-$35 and a graded MS60 sells for $70-$75.   As an AU I would value your coin at about $45 retail, likely less if selling to a dealer.

[RKOL]

Thank you! That's all very helpful. Sorry if the pics aren't all that helpful.

[RWB]

Your photos served their purpose, so they are OK in that respect.

Be very cautious about "having coins graded." The process takes time and costs the fees plus postage both ways. Any coin with a wholesale value under about $300 is probably not worth the time and expense. Look for a local coin club whose members might be able to help you evaluate any coin you consider submitting. Coinbuf's comment, "Junk silver Morgan dollars are selling for about $30-$35 and a graded MS60 sells for $70-$75" really means that after subtracting the cost of grading, a MS-60 Morgan dollar is worth the same as a "junk" coin -- about $35.

You are always welcome to come here and ask questions or opinions. It's free and nobody among the members will deliberately mislead.

[RKOL]

Thanks! Much appreciated. I'm glad I found this resource.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:08 AM, J P M said:

No matter what you do taking a shot of a coin in a 2x2 is hard to see the fields on the coin. The coin is nice but no way to know for sure of the quality with the plastic over it.

Yup........I assumed he was taking it OUT of the 2x2.

[GoldFinger1969]

They still look blurry....do you have the anti-shake feature on your smartphone or digital camera enabled ?  Otherwise, use a very small tripod.

I'm the worst photographer around, and I use my smartphone with all default settings....here's a Morgan (in a holder) that I took a while back doing what I told you (30 degrees, lighting a bit away, no glare).

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:45 PM, RKOL said:

My father collected coins back in the 70s and 80s and my family are going through them after years of having them sit in storage.

Any other notable finds ?  Was your father an active/avid coin collector or did he just buy a few here-and-there in the manias of the 1970's and 1980's ?

I wonder if any of his are TPG certified (in a PCGS or NGC or ANACS/ICG holder).

If you come across any rarer coins like Morgans or gold ones, let us know !   We're happy to help.

 

[RKOL]

He had some of the GSA hoard Morgans that we have decided to sell but mostly things he picked up here and there. Nothing spectacular. This coin, labeled BU by someone--I assume the person my father bought it from--is the only one in the bunch that I was thinking might be a hidden gem, mainly because of that "uncirculated" designation.

What I'm hearing from the group suggests otherwise, but it's good to know.

I've taken the coin out of the holder and tried a couple more pictures at roughly 30 degree angle with less glare. Hoping these are better? If not, I still appreciate the help and encouragement.

[GoldFinger1969]

Yeah, those are clearer.  Like the others said, probably doesn't affect the grade we see and the resulting value.

The GSA Morgans could be worth something -- should be a few hundred bucks or so.

Is your or your family's goal to sell everything or keep the top-notch stuff ?  Are you into collecting ?

[RKOL]

I got the amateur collecting bug from my dad. I've kept the coins he passed down to me directly and used those as a base to start collecting with my daughter, but we're just having fun with it, not serious investors. Most of his coins were things he pulled out of old coffee cans filled with change, some neat pieces though.
These other coins were kept in a safe deposit box that the family has just cleared out, and the plan is to sell this stuff off. Since I've got the most experience, the job fell to me. It's good to know that if this Morgan sells in the $50 range that I'm not letting something super valuable slip through my fingers.

[Coinbuf]

Just to circle back to your GSA Morgan dollars.   Depending on how you plan to liquidate these coins it may be advisable to have them graded.   GSA's have seen a nice rise in values over the past few years and graded examples sell in the $400 range up to $800+ for the better dates and grades.   NGC does a nice job of grading the GSA morgans, they leave the coin in the GSA holder and place a band with the grade and information around the holder.   Many collectors prefer to have the original packaging (holder, box, and COA) when buying a GSA coin.

 

[RKOL]

Thanks!

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/19/2023 at 2:09 PM, RKOL said:

I got the amateur collecting bug from my dad. I've kept the coins he passed down to me directly and used those as a base to start collecting with my daughter, but we're just having fun with it, not serious investors. Most of his coins were things he pulled out of old coffee cans filled with change, some neat pieces though.
These other coins were kept in a safe deposit box that the family has just cleared out, and the plan is to sell this stuff off. Since I've got the most experience, the job fell to me. It's good to know that if this Morgan sells in the $50 range that I'm not letting something super valuable slip through my fingers.

Nothing wrong with keeping a coin with sentimental value either, RKOL.  Something to be said for that if it's a coin your dad treasured.  It's yours now....can be your daughters down the line. 

[EagleRJO]

From the original post a coin marked BU or brilliant uncirculated would need to have no indications of rub marks or wear, particularly at the high points of the coin which includes mostly around the top of the head on the obverse as well as the eagles head and feathers on the reverse.

There doesn't appear to be any obvious wear on the reverse, but here may be some wear on the obverse of the hair next to the cotton blossoms and around the cap fold.  Even without any obvious wear there does appear to be rub marks around the eye and on the eagles breast, indicated by darker or discolored areas.  This alone would knock the grade down from BU to AU even without the potential wear indicated.  There may also be signs of a cleaning, but I think that would be very difficult to establish just with those pics.

The pictures, particularly the obverse, are a little blurry and don't always tell a complete story.  You may want to take the coin in-hand and compare it to pictures of a low MS or Mid AU grade for that particular coin at the following webpage ... https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1878-s-1/images/7082

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/19/2023 at 6:27 PM, EagleRJO said:

From the original post a coin marked BU or brilliant uncirculated would need to have no indications of rub marks or wear, particularly at the high points of the coin which includes mostly around the top of the head on the obverse as well as the eagles head and feathers on the reverse.

As I understand it.....BU would be low-60's MS......Choice UNC would be MS-63.....Gem UNC would be MS-65....and Superb Gem would be MS-67.

That's how the old terminology was equated to actual numerical grades once the TPGs got involved.

Edited January 20, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[RKOL]

I appreciate all the input. Thanks!

[EagleRJO]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:31 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As I understand it.....BU would be low-60's MS......Choice UNC would be MS-63.....Gem UNC would be MS-65....and Superb Gem would be MS-67.

That's how the old terminology was equated to actual numerical grades once the TPGs got involved.

It looks like you are missing a few there.  There are five BU grades following PCG$ convention including: BU (MS60 to MS62); Choice BU (MS63); Select BU (MS64); Gem BU (MS65); and Superb BU (MS66 to MS67).

However, for adjectival grading I prefer to just follow the NGC convention with three uncirculated grades including BU (MS60 to MS62), Choice BU (MS63 to MS64) and Gem BU (MS65 to MS70).  Beyond that you can just use the Sheldon scale.