Newbie Question - Double Die Obverse 0

[Seamus8]

Greetings All, I have been reading the following three books to become familiar with U.S. coin grading and error coin, "The Official ANA Grading Standards", "Strike It Rich with Pocket Change", and "The Official Red Book, A Guide Book of U.S. Coins 2023."

Obviously, all three books have tremendously helped to educate me. However, I am still having problems recognizing (even with a 10X loupe and under a microscope) what: "Double Die Obverse" looks like. I've seen some more pronounced obvious examples on the PCGS and NGS websites. But I have a question about the two Lincoln pennies below.

Does there appear to be doubling in the letters in "LIBERTY"? Or is this just wishful thinking on my part?

[Greenstang]

That is what is known as Die Deterioration Doubling (DDD), a worthless type of doubling  caused by a worn die.

Please do not use screen shots, they are too pixilated especially when you increase the size of the picture.

[JKK]

Stang's right. This type of doubling gets no premium; if anything it's a detracting flaw. If you wonder how we can say it's an error but it's not worth anything, it's because it's an error no one but Lamentsy rubes will pay extra for. We presume you not to be one of them, so we skip that step and tell you it's nothing special.

I would say F-bomb Strike it Rich... on the grounds that this is highly unlikely, and its title is representative of the type of mentality that leads us tediously through delivery of daily unwelcome news to new collectors who think their retirement money is in coin rolls and parking lots. Not saying that's you, just saying that's the direction books like that (and worst of all, videos) tend to take collectors. Your other two book acquisitions are spot on. I would replace the discard with The Art & Science of Grading Coins by Jason Poe. It brings to the table a very useful understanding of the relevant physical sciences that play into coin striking.

[Seamus8]

As I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and understand metallurgy, the book The Art & Science of Grading Coins will be a welcome addition to my nascent coin collection library.

I just ordered the 2023 paperback edition.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Seamus8

[Sandon]

   On a doubled die the two images are crisp and at about the same level, whereas on most other types of multiple images on coins they are "shelf-like" (strike doubling) or ghost like (die deterioration doubling, as here).  Note the pertinent characteristics on this 1972 doubled die cent (the Redbook variety). On a minor doubled die, fewer letters, numbers or other features would be affected, and the images might be closer together.

 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:15 PM, Seamus8 said:

"The Official ANA Grading Standards", "Strike It Rich with Pocket Change", and "The Official Red Book, A Guide Book of U.S. Coins 2023."

Well, you got 2 out of 3 for the references correct.

Since grading is so important try the "Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection" as a substitute third.

You know which one has to go. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by EagleRJO

[JKK]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:52 PM, Seamus8 said:

As I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and understand metallurgy, the book The Art & Science of Grading Coins will be a welcome addition to my nascent coin collection library.

Then you'll probably understand more of it than I did (my freshman year, the tea leaves said I wasn't ever going to be a chemist).

If you ever get into ancients, I can make a lot more recommendations, but other members will have generally better suggestions on books relating to modern US coinage. Another possibility is to subscribe to Coin World mag; it has an extensive US price guide in each issue, plus a deep dive on grading of a specific coin type (could be anything from Mercs to quarter eagles to colonial state coppers; sometimes low grade, sometimes high, sometimes both and what's in between). What I've done is to dismantle each issue, separate the grading guide and the price guide from the rest, three-hole them and put them in a binder. Ten years on, I have one hell of a grading library if I ever want to zero in on a given issue with the aid of very expert commentary--and I can go back and review price movements if I want. It isn't as much work as it might sound like.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:52 PM, Seamus8 said:

As I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and understand metallurgy ...

BSCE with a minor in material science and structures for me, so welcome to the club.  There are a number on the forum with scientific backgrounds.  I think the engineering with an emphasis on scientific methods has helped me immensely in pursuing coin collection as a more serous hobby more than anything else.

Edited January 5, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Coinbuf]

@Seamus8 what year is the coin in your op?   Here is a handy visual reference to distinguish real hub doubling vs the common forms of strike doubling.   Also if you have not you should bookmark the website Error-Ref.com, here is a link.

Error-Ref

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Coinbuf

[EagleRJO]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:12 PM, JKK said:

This type of doubling ... it's an error but it's not worth anything ...

@JKKwould the doubling (from die deterioration) really be considered as an "error", as deterioration of dies can be considered a normal part of the coin production process over time, particularly for older coins where dies were not as well made and they tried to squeeze every last coin out of dies.

[Greenstang]

Agree with the Eagle,

DDD is not an error, as is not MD, they are just part of the minting process. The only “error” is the mint using the dies too long. I have seen it sometimes called a “Die Event”

[Seamus8]

I bookmarked Error-Ref and ordered "Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection".

Thanks for the tips and recommendations. 

[VKurtB]

If you get a copy of “Strike It Rich …”, use it for what it’s good for - kindling for starting a fire. Ken Potter and Brian Allen deserve to be treated as pariahs for having had anything to do with that tome. It’s trash. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by VKurtB