1943 Mercury Dime purchase, grade? 0

[Standby]

I am moving slow and trying to make good purchases. I purchased this Mercury dime. It looks perfect. I don't know how to grade coins. I believe it may also have a die crack. I'll post some images. Let me know if it's worth grading or of you care to guess the grade. I used my scope because my camera is awful at taking pictures. I'll try to get a full shot later.

 

[Coinbuf]

There is simply no way that anyone can grade or give any opinion from the photos in your op, one clear, in focus, cropped photo of the obv and rev is what is needed.   All I can say from the photos is that you have a merc dime from 1943, it is a very common coin, and it does not have full bands.   Microscopes are a terrible thing in numismatics.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Coinbuf

[Standby]

Why are they terrible?

[JKK]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:02 PM, Standby said:

Why are they terrible?

Because none of them look like a simple picture of either full side of the coin (as buf mentioned), and none of the color looks natural. I get that you were trying hard to get close-ups of parts you considered important, and credit is due for trying to do what you thought would help us, but in order to answer your previous question we simply need one sharp, color-honest photo of each side, well cropped. Right now all one can say is it looks like a nice but massively common 43 Merc, might be AU, might be MS. Would love to see photos that look like the actual full coin.

A thing to remember is that while we do use magnification to ID varieties and errors (don't see any here, from what I can see), we don't use it to grade below MS-69. Everything below that is graded with the naked eye; thus even a heavily blown up photo is bending that rule a bit. However, in this environment we pretty much need the blowups to see the correct detail presences.

[Sandon]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:16 PM, Standby said:

Let me know if it's worth grading or of you care to guess the grade

On 11/21/2022 at 6:16 PM, Standby said:

. I don't know how to grade coins.

   Very, very few 1943 "Mercury" dimes are "worth grading"--except by you when you learn how to grade, and before you buy one, whether or not graded by a grading service! This is one of the most common dates, with 191.7 million pieces minted and many, many (perhaps several million) uncirculated pieces saved.  Assuming that the coin is uncirculated and unimpaired without being able to see better photos of the entire coin, it lacks the full split center bands ("FB") for which collectors pay a premium.  The average uncirculated piece would grade MS 64 or so and have a retail value per the NGC Price Guide of $17, or less than the NGC grading fee of $23 (plus processing fees and shipping) for such a coin valued at less than $300. A true gem uncirculated piece grading MS 67 is only worth $75 and probably not worth it either, assuming it would be graded that high!  Even a coin with FB lists only $60 in MS 66 and only a "67" ($300) or higher would be worthwhile.  It is usually only dealers with years of experience, who get discounts from the grading services for bulk submissions, who come out ahead trying to get such high grades on common coins. Often, even they don't!

   If you wish to collect relatively inexpensive "Mercury" dimes like these, they are best stored and displayed in a coin album (not folder), such as one made by Whitman or Dansco or in a hard (not soft) plastic holder or frame.  I've collected coins for over 50 years, and most of my coins, including some better ones, are uncertified and have been safely stored for decades in such albums and holders.

  I previously directed you to my post on "Resources for New Collectors" and again urge you at a minimum to obtain and study a current "Redbook", grading guide, and current price guides and/or their online equivalents before purchasing coins. We're willing to help you, but you have to gain some level of knowledge before you can pose questions that we can effectively answer.

  Regarding your latest question, your photos are too grainy, too dark, and too close up.  However, the grade of a coin--especially an uncirculated one--is very difficult to determine from even the best photos, as grading involves examination of the coin from various angles and lightings.  

  

  

[Standby]

I did take your advice and ordered some reading material. I paid $7.35 for this coin so nothing to lose there. I am having fun and that's what's important to me. I come to this site to learn and enjoy the posts by decent people. I especially like looking at their coins. I am not in this hobby for investments, however, I am not interested in losing money either. I need to learn to take some good pictures of coins. I'll study up on that. As mentioned my phone stinks for images. I tried so hard to get a decent picture but to no avail.

What I like about this coin more than anything is the luster and obvious originality if it. This is definitely part of the learning curve for me. Just know what real luster should look like is like getting on first base for me.

These are the best pictures I can take with my lousy phone camera.

[Coinbuf]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:02 PM, Standby said:

Why are they terrible?

Microscopes lead novice collectors down rabbit holes is why.   Using a microscope to identify a very small but important PUP (pickup point) or die marker is useful to someone that knows what they are looking for.   You have said that you are not proficient in coins or feel that you are as of yet skilled in grading, when folks that are new to the hobby they often think that more is better.   In the case of a microscope the high magnification will induce many people to see things that are not there, it is called pareidolia, the same phenomena that happens when you look at a cloud and think you see a bunny or a face, the mind sees what it wants to see.   This happens all the time here where someone claims to see extra letters, numbers, the face of Jesus, you name it.   Sometimes we are told that the person has bad eyesight and needs this in order to see, I understand that as we age some people have issues with eyesight not being able to see the coins is a problem, but more often than not the use of a microscope just does not make things better.

Also the photos most are able to take with a microscope while great closeups, as Sandon noted the color balance is usually way off and asking members to stitch together several photos in their mind is just too difficult.   And it is also impossible to judge luster or the surfaces on the coin from most microscope photos.

The photos you just posted are not incredible but so much better than the photos in your op, from these I would grade this 1945 coin as AU58.   Keep in mind that I can only grade the photos and it may well be nicer than my grade assessment.   I am glad that you are having fun that is a very important thing in the hobby, and we are not trying to discourage you, rather we just want to help you learn and progress as a collector.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Coinbuf

[JKK]

Those are nicer photos. They show the natural color, well cropped. Not the same coin, however. A little fuzzy, but far more useful than the first set. 1945 Merc, surfaces look nice, AU-50 or 53 in my opinion.

I can't help you improve your pics because as a photographer I am truly awful. In that area I can only tell you what's wrong but not how to fix it. Those last two, if a little sharper, would be fine. I think you might have good success with setting up something to hold the phone steady. If it were me I'd try laying most of the phone on a solid block looking downward, so the phone doesn't quiver. And that might or might not work, but it's what I would try.

[RWB]

Could be Unc or AU -- difficult to tell more from the photos. Better to begin a photo sequence with full obv and rev shots.

RE: "1943 Mercury Dime purchase, grade?"

The coin shown in your first photos is dated "1943." The coin in your last photo is dated "1945." Which coin do you want an opinion about?

[EagleRJO]

@StandbyGlad to hear you are having fun with coin collecting, because that's what pursuing it as a hobby should be all about.  Learning how to properly grade and evaluate coins is difficult at first but extremely important, and should actually increase your enjoyment as then you are less likely to make mistakes which can result in having a coin that's not as nice as you thought and maybe loosing money too.

I hope the materials you ordered at least includes a Red Book and ANA Grading Standards.  Also consider a book on grading coins since it's that important.  I got a copy of Bowers "Grading Coins by Photographs" which was really helpful before I jumped into taking up collecting as a more serious hobby earlier this year.  Also check your local library for books on grading (you know, that big building flying a flag with a lot of books in it ... lol).  They may not have certain ones, but can usually find them to borrow with a little time.

Keep in mind that grading is intended to be done by just looking at a coin with good lighting, initially with no magnification, and then using a max 10x loupe or glass to confirm the initial impression and look for other things (like signs of cleaning, or looking at if something is a scratch vs a die crack, etc.).  A scope is only used for very specific circumstances, and in any event should allow you to zoom out to see the entire coin.

Maybe that's why you seemed surprised that your follow up pics (even though of a different coin and a little blurry) were more helpful than your initial photographs.  The following is a good article on "grading tools" which may also help ... https://www.pcgs.com/news/tools-of-a-professional-coin-grader.  And about taking pics, try to stack up a few books to rest your hand and phone on while taking a pic, which I find makes a huge difference when you zoom in on pics.  And then crop them close to the edges as RWB did.

Now I think a good next step with the 1945 Merc you are asking about, since you have some initial opinions on grade, is to go to PCGS CoinFacts (https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts) and find that specific coin (https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1945-10c/5056), and click on "View More Images" in blue below the first coin.  This will bring up a series of coin photos for specific grades, and then scroll down to photos of coins in the mid AU to low MS range (which you can download to zoom in) and compare to your coin to better determine the grade.  If you have any questions post a few that are close with some better pics of your coin and you should be able to get more assistance.

Hope that helps, and if people haven't said this welcome to the forum. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

Still photos are NEARLY useless for grading purposes. Closeups from a small LED screen on a digital microscope are completely and utterly useless. Don’t be led down rabbit holes. 

[EagleRJO]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:42 PM, VKurtB said:

Still photos are NEARLY useless for grading purposes. Closeups from a small LED screen on a digital microscope are completely and utterly useless. Don’t be led down rabbit holes. 

Agree about the scope, and only somewhat about the still photos if well taken and kept to the ballpark.  Bowers wrote a whole book about that.  The final arbiter is having the coin in-hand and accessing that yourself, with references like the ANA standards and CoinFacts as noted.  Really helped me when jumping into more serious collecting.

Edited November 22, 2022 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:49 PM, EagleRJO said:

well taken and kept to the ballpark

Not THAT is true rarity. The fact is most coin photos we see truly stink. Pros excepted.