EagleRJO Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) QA, I think you posted in the wrong thread. GoldFinger, modern coins are struck with a much higher force/energy than older coins (including a much higher production rate using modern machinery), particularly when compared to older bullion coins. I have seen a table with these force/energy comparisons which I think is around somewhere and I will try to find that and post it so you have that for the future. Attached is just one example showing a 1910-D Saint and a 2021 Gold Eagle with both being MS/BU grade and having the same picture resolution. Zoom in and compare the upper body and area around the head on the obverse for example. The difference is striking (pun intended). Edited October 26, 2022 by EagleRJO GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) On 10/26/2022 at 12:21 PM, EagleRJO said: GoldFinger, modern coins are struck with a much higher force/energy than older coins (including a much higher production rate using modern machinery), particularly when compared to older bullion coins. I have seen a table with these force/energy comparisons which I think is around somewhere and I will try to find that and post it so you have that for the future. Please post it. I thought that the 2009 UHR was struck with 65 metric tons of pressure; the MCMVII HR and the 1907 UHR were each struck I believe with 170 tons of pressure on the medal press. Roger's books have the details but I'm away from them right now. Edited October 28, 2022 by GoldFinger1969 Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) Tons is just the weight, which is only part of a strike. For older screw presses you might compare pressure or pounds/tons per square inch. For more modern equipment you need to compare energy imparted to a coin which is a function of both weight and speed or velocity which is basic physics. While present day equipment may not have as much force/weight as it did in the early 1900's, it is relatively comparable but operates at a much higher speed or velocity imparting a much greater amount of energy to a coin which determines the effectiveness of a strike. Think of ancient times when they would use a large heavy hammer to strike the dies. If a kid who could barely lift the hammer weakly hit the die with that hammer it would be a very weak strike. But if a large strong man (or woman as the case may be these days ) swung the same heavy hammer hard at the dies it would produce a much sharper strike. Same weight but significantly different velocity and thus energy imparted to the coin. Edited October 29, 2022 by EagleRJO Henri Charriere and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 In the old days weren't the dies engraved by hand and now days done by machine ? That would also change the look a bit. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) Well they sure didn't have modern CNC machines to cut the dies for that 1910 coin, so yea I think that would account for some greater detail of modern coins also in addition to there being more energy of the strike. Edited October 28, 2022 by EagleRJO GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 On 10/28/2022 at 9:03 AM, J P M said: In the old days weren't the dies engraved by hand and now days done by machine ? That would also change the look a bit. Oh yeah....the 2009 UHR came with a booklet detailing how they created it with lasers and CNC and all that new stuff. I have extras of that booklet, if any of my friends here want one PM me and I'd be happy to send you one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) On 10/28/2022 at 9:03 AM, J P M said: In the old days weren't the dies engraved by hand The Janvier lathe basically "shrunk" an individual's engravings to a much smaller size. The engravers couldn't produce quality and size necessary to "fit" on a coin. Reminds me of that guy that Fonzie used to help Ritchie get a fake ID in Year 1 or Year 2 of "Happy Days"....engraved and wrote so small that nobody could read the letterings without a magnifying glass ! Edited October 28, 2022 by GoldFinger1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Bottom line is that with modern machinery you get greater detail and a better strike with more energy, and why I looked at adding the more modern gold eagles first. Next is probably to add some Indian head half eagles as I just love the way they look and the incuse design. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) [Tangential rant... I couldn't wait to get my hands on the 2016 Centennial Winged Liberty "Mercury" 1/10 Troy oz. gold coin. Then I opened the parcel in mint-condition OGP. STRIKE 1: My first impression: "You got beat!" (Where's the detail?) STRIKE 2: Ohhh, it's a "business strike!" (What's that?) I put the cover back on the box and vowed I would never take a look at it again. Then a member decided to inaugurate a Gold thread. Ricky [ 🐓 ] stood up, and I ruffled his feathers: U.S. gold only! He sat! back down. As the photos on that thread started coming in, it suddenly occurred to me, hey, why not post that new Mercury? So I posted it. Today, I checked the latest posts and scrolled back to mine. LIKES! A bunch of them! From members I thought were my friends! STRIKE 3. I'm out.] Edited October 28, 2022 by Quintus Arrius Minor die polishing. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 QA I'm worried about you interacting with roosters again. Why not get some real ones? [the gold types, not the ones that wake you up at the crack of dawn 😀] Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 On 10/28/2022 at 6:47 PM, EagleRJO said: QA I'm worried about you interacting with roosters again. Why not get some real ones? [the gold types, not the ones that wake you up at the crack of dawn 😀] I think Quintus has a few of the gold ones Jo. Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EagleRJO Posted October 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2022 Okay, so I guess that is an obscure reference to some of his coins and he doesn't need a big Indian guy to bust open a window. GoldFinger1969, Henri Charriere and J P M 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Henri Charriere Posted October 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2022 [Gentlemen, you're doing just fine without my intermittent, wildly unpredictable, incursions! Carry on!] 🐓 6334cc, EagleRJO and J P M 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, EagleRJO said: The numbers I was seeing in the $50 to $75 range for this coin were from various sold auctions which appear to be generally in line with the UCoin avg pricing. Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Keep in mind those numbers were for lower grade proof coins or raw ones where you have to expect lower PF numbers. You can get wild jumps in pricing as you approach a PF-70, and there just isn't enough data from what I could find to really tell. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
