6334cc Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Dear fellow NGCers: I am in a bit of a quandary over pricing between PF 63 and PF 70. I contemplating purchasing a PF 70 coin on an auction site. The PF 63 price is listed as around US$35. The seller is asking $450, which to me seems extraordinarily high. Unfortunately, there is no listed price for this particular coin in PF 70 grade, so I do not have anything definitive on which to base a decision to pay anywhere close to this price. If anyone knows of any resources I could use to determine what an appropriate PF 70 price would be, I would really appreciate it. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Which coin are you interested in purchasing? GoldFinger1969 and 6334cc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 EagleRJO thank you for responding; I will message you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coinbuf Posted October 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2022 Without more information it is rather difficult to give you any information, not sure why you are afraid to share the coin type and date here, it is unlikely that providing that info would cause a rush to buy it before you can. However, in the absence of such info and using the limited info available (PF70) I will assume that you are looking at a very recent modern coin, and with the price I am guessing one of the recently released Morgan/Peace dollars. The best source for coins like this is to check on ebay for the coins that actually have sold in the past. Again not the listing price but the sold for price is what you want to look for. 6334cc, GoldFinger1969 and Henri Charriere 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MarkFeld Posted October 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/23/2022 at 12:37 PM, Coinbuf said: Without more information it is rather difficult to give you any information, not sure why you are afraid to share the coin type and date here, it is unlikely that providing that info would cause a rush to buy it before you can. However, in the absence of such info and using the limited info available (PF70) I will assume that you are looking at a very recent modern coin, and with the price I am guessing one of the recently released Morgan/Peace dollars. The best source for coins like this is to check on ebay for the coins that actually have sold in the past. Again not the listing price but the sold for price is what you want to look for. I’d look beyond eBay sales to prices realized by various auction companies. Henri Charriere, 6334cc and GoldFinger1969 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 No problem with the coin type etc: it is very obscure though. Bhutan 1992, 300 ngultrum solar system edition: https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/bhutan-300-ngultrums-km-63-1992-cuid-1045179-duid-1287338 GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) That is a pretty obscure coin, and I would usually go to UCoin.net, but alas they only have average pricing for the proof coins ... 300 ngultrums 1992 - Solar System, Bhutan - Coin value - uCoin.net If eBay doesn't have any historical sold listings (not current asking prices), you may need to find a current edition of the Standard Catalog of World Coins thru 2000. My edition only has coins through 1900, but does seem to have the coins under the following intro ... Edited October 23, 2022 by EagleRJO 6334cc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Given the obscurity of this issue, it's unlikely that you will find any meaningful pricing information for a PF 70 grade, as there have probably been few if any reported recent transactions. (How many have even been graded by the major grading services in that grade, and how many were issued to begin with?) I understand that the online NGC World Price Guide is managed by the publishers of the Standard Guide, so the print version, which wouldn't be as current as the online version, is unlikely to have this information either. My own emphasis is on U.S. coins, but it is my understanding that the madness over the number "70" is far less intense for foreign coins than it is for U.S. coins. Pieces grading 70--meaning that no flaws can allegedly be seen under low magnification--are barely distinguishable from pieces grading 68 or 69. If I were you, I wouldn't pay $450 for this coin, for which there is probably low demand, but would try to buy a decent looking "65" or better for a reasonable price. AdamWL and 6334cc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/23/2022 at 4:04 PM, Sandon said: ... madness over the number "70" I agree and intentionally avoid 70s because of that and the ridiculous prices some will pay/ask for those when there is barely any difference with somewhat lower grades which I think is hands down a better value, but to each his own. 6334cc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 I cannot tell the difference between a 69 and a 70. If they don't have problems (milk spots), they both look perfect to me. EagleRJO and 6334cc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond. I really appreciate it. I am glad to know I am not alone in my belief that the price being asked is absurdly high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/23/2022 at 1:37 PM, Coinbuf said: Without more information it is rather difficult to give you any information, not sure why you are afraid to share the coin type and date here, it is unlikely that providing that info would cause a rush to buy it before you can. People here have integrity, nobody is going to jump someone even if it's a coin that they might have interest. Unless they were already bidding. At least I wouldn't. 6334cc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) I know nothing of Bhutan coins, in fact I never even heard of Bhutan except maybe in passing over the decades where it didn't stick. But I can tell you that for modern coins, it's not unusual in the more popular series -- still relatively illiquid (i.e., 5 ounce silvers) to see a 50-100% jump from PF69 to PF70. Sometimes sellers will ask (not sure they get) a 100-200% bump from the 69 level. I would think that the jump from 63 to 70 could be larger, even for a very rare unique coin. It really depends on how many unique buyers there are for a unique coin. It only takes 2 bidders to drive up the price to skyhigh levels. Edited October 25, 2022 by GoldFinger1969 6334cc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 It looks like proof 1992 Bhutan 300 Ngultrum coins have been going for around $50 to $75 for average grade proofs on eBay and other auction sites, which is in line with the UCoin.net average proof pricing. So, I would keep looking for a mid-grade MS coin at around that price. 6334cc and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 Again, thank you all so much for the insights. Even a 300 percent increase from 63 that would put a 70 at $105. If someone wants it that badly, more power to them. As for myself, I decided the $475 would be better put towards fulfilling my dream of one day having a 1907 high relief $20 St. Gaudens. EagleRJO and Oldhoopster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 9:08 PM, 6334cc said: As for myself, I decided the $475 would be better put towards fulfilling my dream of one day having a 1907 high relief $20 St. Gaudens. Clearly, a wise man and savvy collector. 6334cc and Henri Charriere 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) On 10/24/2022 at 9:08 PM, 6334cc said: Again, thank you all so much for the insights. Even a 300 percent increase from 63 that would put a 70 at $105. If someone wants it that badly, more power to them. As for myself, I decided the $475 would be better put towards fulfilling my dream of one day having a 1907 high relief $20 St. Gaudens. As a newbie, let me inform you if you didn't know already that the US COINS section has a great thread on Roger Burdette's wonderful Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle book....there is also a separate thread talking about the MCMVII High Relief coin and another one talking about Saint/gold prices. Edited October 25, 2022 by GoldFinger1969 6334cc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 11:32 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: Clearly, a wise man and savvy collector. It takes one to know one! GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 10:16 AM, GoldFinger1969 said: As a newbie, let me inform you if you didn't know already that the US COINS section has a great thread on Roger Burdette's wonderful Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle book....there is also a separate thread talking about the MCMVII High Relief coin and another one talking about Saint/gold prices. This is amazing, thank you so much! GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 7:03 PM, EagleRJO said: It looks like proof 1992 Bhutan 300 Ngultrum coins have been going for around $50 to $75 for average grade proofs on eBay and other auction sites, which is in line with the UCoin.net average proof pricing. So, I would keep looking for a mid-grade MS coin at around that price. Thank you so much. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6334cc Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 7:03 PM, EagleRJO said: It looks like proof 1992 Bhutan 300 Ngultrum coins have been going for around $50 to $75 for average grade proofs on eBay and other auction sites, which is in line with the UCoin.net average proof pricing. So, I would keep looking for a mid-grade MS coin at around that price. Good call. Thanks again. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) On 10/24/2022 at 9:08 PM, 6334cc said: ... my dream of one day having a 1907 high relief $20 St. Gaudens. Idk about that. I know I'm likely in the minority here, but I think modern 1-oz gold eagle coins, of which I have several, have sharper detail and a better strike than the older bullion coins. Particularly the 2021 1-oz eagles with the remake and enhancement of the Saint obverse and flying/perched eagles on the reverse. Absolutely amazing coins, although I have looked at and will likely add at least one common date Saint if I can get it pretty close to spot just to have one in my collection. But that's just me. Edited October 25, 2022 by EagleRJO GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) On 10/23/2022 at 4:04 PM, Sandon said: Given the obscurity of this issue, it's unlikely that you will find any meaningful pricing information for a PF 70 grade, as there have probably been few if any reported recent transactions. (How many have even been graded by the major grading services in that grade, and how many were issued to begin with?).... Personally, I would like to know where they were minted and the mintage run. Also, the issue price? I don't know how demand for such an example could be gaughed. To establish a trend in demand, you would need to have X number of reference points. If this coin were unique, you would not know what the demand for it was until after the fact. Until after it was sold. I believe the high figure you encountered was simply a ploy to elicit a similarly high-brow price after establishing a high-priced mindset. I would not rush into this type of purchase until after you've made a sufficient number of inquiries with those who would likely know. Yavash yavash----easy does it. Edited October 25, 2022 by Quintus Arrius Die polishing GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 The numbers I was seeing in the $50 to $75 range for this coin were from various sold auctions which appear to be generally in line with the UCoin avg pricing. 6334cc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 5:58 PM, EagleRJO said: Idk about that. I know I'm likely in the minority here, but I think modern 1-oz gold eagle coins, of which I have several, have sharper detail and a better strike than the older bullion coins. They do....but an MCMVII HR is like land: they're not making any more of them. The strikes on most years of the Saint-Gaudens series are well-struck even by today's standard, but you were using technology from 100 years ago that was early analog whereas today it is laser etching and digital. That metal press though from that time (which struck the MCMVII's) still packed a punch comparable to today's, maybe even exceeding it. On 10/25/2022 at 5:58 PM, EagleRJO said: Particularly the 2021 1-oz eagles with the remake and enhancement of the Saint obverse and flying/perched eagles on the reverse. Absolutely amazing coins, although I have looked at and will likely add at least one common date Saint if I can get it pretty close to spot just to have one in my collection. But that's just me. The 2021's are nice. https://www.usmint.gov/coins/coin-medal-programs/american-eagle/gold-proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, EagleRJO said: The numbers I was seeing in the $50 to $75 range for this coin were from various sold auctions which appear to be generally in line with the UCoin avg pricing. Well, there you have it. [And thank you for including that note regarding Bhutan!] I would caution the OP from squandering his hard-earned money on any coin the demand for which is debatable, irrespective of excruciatiatingly incremental grading. To be fair about it, why don't we let fellow member z establish the acceptable parameters for these. Let it never be said Q.A. refused to concede in the presence of those more learned than he. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) That was a link to the 2022 1-oz gold coin. This 2021 1-oz gold eagle is the nicer one imo ... https://www.apmex.com/product/218622/2021-1-oz-american-gold-eagle-coin-bu-type-1 The US Mint went woke at the end of 2021 and the quality of products became secondary after that, including the 2022 gold eagle which I also have. In addition I like the 2021 reverse better with the two eagles, instaed of the strangely enlarged eagle's head. In hand the 2021 coin is actually even nicer and the details jump out at you. Edited October 27, 2022 by EagleRJO GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 This whole albino Flying Eagle has been preying on my mind... The OP's coin looks reminiscent of the 1863 Indian Head cent I once had. A noticeably blanched look, simply worn down, no "damage" in the non-numismatic use of that word. Ones in "perfect" condition now command well over $10,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldhoopster Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 10:18 PM, Quintus Arrius said: This whole albino Flying Eagle has been preying on my mind... The OP's coin looks reminiscent of the 1863 Indian Head cent I once had. A noticeably blanched look, simply worn down, no "damage" in the non-numismatic use of that word. Ones in "perfect" condition now command well over $10,000. Your 1863 was also a "white cent" with a composition of 88% copper and 12% Nickel. All flying eagles and Indians from 1859-1864 had this composition (some 1864 are the standard copper composition) I remember buying them when I was younger to fill my Indian Cent folder and always thought they were cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonman333rd Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Wow I learned alot from that post thanks I will check my 1863's that is if I have any. I collect indian heads but their kinda to expensive to buy on ebay and mostly g4's. Beware of etsy they sell fakes that look real. Do you know how to tell a real indian head from a fake I don't yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
