Die Varieties for Early Half Dollar 1 1

[EagleRJO]

I have a book of die varieties entitled "US Early Half Dollar Die Varieties 1794-1836" since I am interested in pre-1933 half dollars and may eventually do a one-a-year set. But what about varieties for 1837 half dollars going forward? I don't see any good online resources for that and there must be a companion book for varieties, but I can't find it.  Searches seem to always come up with the book I have. Suggestions?

[DWLange]

The Reeded Edge Bust Halves 1836-39 are covered in a fairly recent book by Graham that sold out its first printing, but I believe it is still available in a second printing. The Seated Liberty Halves are covered in tremendous detail in a series of books written by Bill Bugert. These may be viewed online at the website of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club. Barber Halves are covered in an older book by David Lawrence. The Walking Liberty Halves are covered by Bruce Fox in a book from 30 years ago and a more recent one by Q. David Bowers that is part of Whitman's Red Book specialty series.

[Sandon]

  Check out the "bibliography" toward the back of your standard or deluxe edition "Redbook", which lists references for each U.S. series.  The bibliography is listed in the index.  The 1836-39 Capped Bust half dollars are attributed in major auctions by Graham Reiver (GR) numbers, presumably from the Graham book referred to by Mr. Lange, which isn't included in the bibliographies. I don't know where you can get the book.  Seated half dollars are attributed by Wiley-Bugert (WB) numbers from the books referred to by Mr. Lange, also referred to in the RB bibliographies.  Many of these, as well as many varieties of subsequent series, are listed with photos on NGC "VarietyPlus" or PCGS Coinfacts, although there is usually no verbal description of a variety's distinctive characteristics.

 Before 1837 most U.S. coinage dies were individually made up from individual punches for the devices, letters, stars, numbers, etc., so each die pair produced a distinct variety. Beginning in or about 1837 dies for U.S. coins were generally produced from "hubs" that included all design elements except for the dates and any mint marks, so after that there are fewer dies that were distinctly different enough for every die and die marriage to be catalogued. Thereafter, die varieties are mainly from noticeably different date or mint mark positions, errors in the die making process, or damaged or worn dies. (Since the early 1900s the dates and since about 1991 mint marks are included in hubs.)  This is why the only variety references that seek to be comprehensive are those for pre-1837 issues, and subsequent series references are less popular, with the notable exception of Morgan dollar "VAMS". 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Sandon
correct a "typo"

[EagleRJO]

Well, I guess that explains why I wasn't finding a good source or maybe one or two more books for those 1837+ half dollar varieties.  But I guess it simplifies things somewhat if it's just the date and mark that vary.

And talking about varieties for early half dollars I saw this one recently which seems to be a F to VF grade, with a Tampered-3 date mark which seems close, but maybe a little mashed from wear and contact damage?

Edited September 7, 2022 by EagleRJO

[zadok]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:13 PM, DWLange said:

The Reeded Edge Bust Halves 1836-39 are covered in a fairly recent book by Graham that sold out its first printing, but I believe it is still available in a second printing. The Seated Liberty Halves are covered in tremendous detail in a series of books written by Bill Bugert. These may be viewed online at the website of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club. Barber Halves are covered in an older book by David Lawrence. The Walking Liberty Halves are covered by Bruce Fox in a book from 30 years ago and a more recent one by Q. David Bowers that is part of Whitman's Red Book specialty series.

...not to mention that many of the half dollar varieties r also shown in NGC's Variety Plus managed by DWLange....

[EagleRJO]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:05 PM, zadok said:

...not to mention that many of the half dollar varieties r also shown in NGC's Variety Plus managed by DWLange....

Wow, that is actually an excellent resource I didn't realize was there. Thanks, and props to DWLange.

[zadok]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:16 PM, EagleRJO said:

Wow, that is actually an excellent resource I didn't realize was there. Thanks, and props to DWLange.

...i use it all the time, Dave is the reference source at NGC for varieties....

[Sandon]

   The 1823 half dollar has been holed and plugged, with related tooling and burnishing, especially on the reverse around the plug.  You can see a circle at the center top of the liberty cap where the rather large hole was, with a corresponding circle on the lower reverse.  The hole apparently included the top of the numeral "5", which was re-engraved in an attempted "repair".

  I've never seen a reference to a "Tampered 3" 1823 variety.  Where did you see this terminology?  1823s that aren't "normal" 3s are classified as "broken", "patched" or "ugly" 3s in the Redbook and elsewhere.  This one may be a "patched" 3, although it is hard to tell from the photo.  You might be able to determine the exact variety from the Overton book on Bust half dollars that you referred to in the initial post

[EagleRJO]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:22 PM, Sandon said:

I've never seen a reference to a "Tampered 3" 1823 variety.  Where did you see this terminology?  1823s that aren't "normal" 3s are classified as "broken", "patched" or "ugly" 3s in the Redbook and elsewhere.

I think the "Tampered 3" is a newer less common variety with a protruding area that has like nubs on the back right side of the 3 from die chips, described as follows from: 1823 Capped Bust Half Dollar All Varieties Lettered Edge Coin Value Prices, Photos & Info (usacoinbook.com) 

Quote

A lesser-known variety features what looks like a patched 3 with a blob within the central gap on the outside of the "3" (right side) - but the central piece inside the "3" (left side) is still present and unbroken. The blob is actually due to a die chip and had nothing to with the Mint trying to repair a broken 3. This became known as the "Tampered 3" variety.

Attached is an image with the various date varieties referenced there, and an example for an 1823 O-106A variety which I think is a match for a "Tampered 3", from my new favorite web resource for that which is the NGC VarietyPlus. 

I did see those areas you mentioned but thought it was wear. I hadn't noticed the exact same wear/repair area on the obv and rev, but see that now if its a slightly rotated die. Thanks.

Edited September 8, 2022 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

On 9/7/2022 at 6:23 PM, zadok said:

...i use it all the time, Dave is the reference source at NGC for varieties....

@DWLange that is a great varieties reference, nice job. Any chance that maybe some descriptions may be added to the varieties at some point or is that a work in progress which I just haven't seen yet being totally new to that resource?

[Just Bob]

I believe the 1823 shown above is O-108a.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:58 PM, Just Bob said:

I believe the 1823 shown above is O-108a.

I think you are right, good eyes. I was comparing it to the "Tampered 3" from the CoinBook example (attached) which is a O-106A.  But now when I look at a O-108A it does more closely match the listed coin with the thicker loop up at the top of the 3 and a single bump out on the right side of the thickened 3 in the middle.

Now the 64-dollar question. Is the 1823 O-108A also considered a "Tampered 3" but just at a different die state, or is that referred to as something else? 

[Just Bob]

O-108 is obverse die 7 paired with reverse die B. O-106 is obverse die 5 with reverse die F. So, no, they are not the same die.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Just Bob

[EagleRJO]

So how is the O-108A variety described? The 3 wouldn't be "Normal", "Broken", "Patched" or "Ugly" and it seems pretty close to a "Tampered".  Maybe when I get my book back out on loan (what am I, a library ) I will see if there is anything noted there as I don't even see "Tampered" in the NGC info or on PCGS CoinFacts.

And talking about 1823 50C varieties attached is another raw one I saw recently probably VF at best which I think is a O-101A or "Patched 3".

Edited September 8, 2022 by EagleRJO

[DWLange]

The Overton book notes that many 1823 halves are mistakenly attributed as the Ugly 3, Broken 3 or Patched 3, and my own experience is that this is very true. Even the so-called "Normal 3" varieties reveal some oddly shaped 3's. The safest bet is to check the spacing and alignment of the obverse stars and the reverse lettering. A good place to start is NGC's VarietyPlus pages for this series:

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/half-dollars/capped-bust-lettered-edge-half-dollars-1807-1836/?page=1

[EagleRJO]

After @Just Bob pointed out the coin I originally posted looked like an O-108A variety I looked closely at the date, devices and stars (location, shape, spacing, alignment & point direction) on the obverse, as well as the devices, lettering and denomination on the reverse and it looks like a match with the O-108A. I think the 3 in the date on that one is pretty close but not an exact match with the "Tampered 3" from the CoinBook site (which looks like an O-106A) than any of the others.  I just don't see any varieties like the O-108A described in terms of the 3 like the others (e.g. "Ugly 3"), except for also calling it a Tampered 3.

For the last raw 1823 50C posted I also looked closely at the devices, stars and date on the obverse, as well as the devices, lettering and denomination on the reverse and it looks like a solid match with an O-101A or "Patched 3".  Attached is the Date from that coin (top) and the date from an O-101A (bot).

If I do get one for this year to go in an early half dollar collection it would probably be a "Patched 3" or "Normal 3" as they are a little more reasonably priced in the VF to XF range compared to say an "Ugly 3" which I think are overpriced.

Edited September 8, 2022 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

Like this one which I think is an example of an O-110A  "Ugly 3" that are ridiculously priced vs the other types.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:07 PM, EagleRJO said:

So how is the O-108A variety described? The 3 wouldn't be "Normal", "Broken", "Patched" or "Ugly" and it seems pretty close to a "Tampered".  Maybe when I get my book back out on loan (what am I, a library ) I will see if there is anything noted there as I don't even see "Tampered" in the NGC info or on PCGS CoinFacts.

I got my early half dollar die book back (5th Edition) and there is nothing there on describing the O-108A variety in terms of the type of 3, so it looks like the best is to just describe it as a Tampered 3 as stated on the USA Coin Book site.

[Just Bob]

"Re-worked 3" may be a more accurate description. The center of the digit appears to have been strengthened, and the entire digit is misshapen.