Trade Dollar reverse orientation 0

[bridp]

I recently found an article in wikihow explaining how to identify a Trade Dollar fake. Below is the link.

https://www.wikihow.com/Detect-Counterfeit-Trade-Dollars#:~:text=On a fake coin%2C these may be unevenly spaced.&text=Trade Dollars also have reeded,unevenly spaced%2C or irregularly sized.

Step #9 says that if you flip the coin from left to right, the image of the eagle should be upright. Yet I see pictures all over Ebay showing the image being upright when flipping from top to bottom.

Is this article incorrect? I want to buy a nice Trade Dollar, but now I'm a little spooked.

BP

[RWB]

Skip #7; that could damage an authentic coin. #9 is not a definitive test. A genuine US coin will (nearly always) have the reverse upside down when the obverse is right-side up. (The New Hampshire "innovation" quarter has the reverse intentionally oriented at 45-degrees.)

Why not buy a coin that has already been authenticated by NGC, PCGS or ANACS?

[VKurtB]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:15 PM, RWB said:

Skip #7; that could damage an authentic coin. #9 is not a definitive test. A genuine US coin will (nearly always) have the reverse upside down when the obverse is right-side up. (The New Hampshire "innovation" quarter has the reverse intentionally oriented at 45-degrees.)

Why not buy a coin that has already been authenticated by NGC, PCGS or ANACS?

90 degrees, Roger, not 45. 

[bridp]

Thanks for the reply and the confirmation. (And I would never use step #7.). I will definitely buy certified.

[EagleRJO]

You have to be very careful with raw trade dollars as they are commonly faked.  If you are going to go down that road reference a resource like Red Book or USA Coin Book to look up the physical properties to check and identify the various varieties and combinations of obverses and reverses for that year/mark, with an example of that attached.  Then look up certified examples from say PCGS CoinFacts and rotate/overlay the various features to carefully compare the two. I have found a number of raw fakes just taking these basic steps.  Just be aware that for a raw Trade Dollar there is still a risk though as some of the fakes are very good.

[Be prepared to spend an untold number of hours learning about the varieties and things to check, and then more untold hours checking each raw coin your interested in, and accept there is still going to be risk as a non-expert. Or just minimize the risk by getting a slabbed certified one if that's not something you would accept and enjoy doing. But it is always good to know about what you are buying, reguardless of having an experts opinion on a label.]

Also, I don't agree that the turn of a Trade Dollar is horizontal as indicated in the article, it is vertical.  See the attached PCGS example which has the correct vertical coin turn (i.e. if you turn the coin vertically as in the PCGS example the eagle should be right-side-up). If you look at the source for that in the article, they correctly state that if you turn the coin horizontally the eagle should be upside down, but there is a typo on the direction the upside-down eagles head faces which is to the left, not the right as referenced.  The author should have known that so take the rest of the article with grains of salt.

Edited September 7, 2022 by EagleRJO

[bridp]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:00 PM, EagleRJO said:

You have to be very careful with raw trade dollars as they are commonly faked.  If you are going to go down that road reference a resource like Red Book or USA Coin Book to look up the physical properties to check and identify the various varieties and combinations of obverses and reverses for that year/mark, with an example of that attached.  Then look up certified examples from say PCGS CoinFacts and rotate/overlay the various features to carefully compare the two.  I have found a number of raw fakes just taking these basic steps.  Just be aware that for a raw Trade Dollar there is still a risk though as some of the fakes are very good.

Also, I don't agree that the turn of a Trade Dollar is horizontal as indicated in the article, it is vertical.  See the attached PCGS example which has the correct vertical coin turn (i.e. if you turn the coin vertically as in the PCGS example the eagle should be right-side-up). If you look at the source for that in the article, they correctly state that if you turn the coin horizontally the eagle should be upside down, but there is a typo on the direction the upside-down eagles head faces which is to the left, not the right as referenced.  The author should have known that so take the rest of the article with grains of salt.

First day in this site as a member, and already seeing great support like this. Thank you.

[Just Bob]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:00 PM, EagleRJO said:

...take the rest of the article with grains of salt.

 

 

This 

Not only is number nine incorrect, there are also errors and misleading statements in some of the other points. For example, there are Chinese counterfeiters who are using presses that are more advanced than the ones that minted genuine trade dollars, and are capable of exerting more than enough pressure to bring up the details accurately.

At one time, trade dollar counterfeits were almost laughable. Now they are frighteningly good.

[Conder101]

I also like the statement that if the date is outside the 1873 to 1885 that it is probably a fake.  Probably?  And then they go on to say that one of the most common trade dollars is the 1847 S.  And that is in there twice.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/22/2022 at 8:41 PM, Conder101 said:

I also like the statement that if the date is outside the 1873 to 1885 that it is probably a fake.  Probably?  And then they go on to say that one of the most common trade dollars is the 1847 S.  And that is in there twice.

Yea, only "probably" a fake, and then list a coin out of the date range? I didn't even get past the coin turn because if something simple like that is wrong the rest is pointless to read. But THAT is even worse to get wrong. 

[VKurtB]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:27 AM, EagleRJO said:

Yea, only "probably" a fake, and then list a coin out of the date range? I didn't even get past the coin turn because if something simple like that is wrong the rest is pointless to read. But THAT is even worse to get wrong. 

And THAT, goys and birls, is why you don’t trust Wiki-anything. Paedia, Leaks, How, ANY of them. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[bridp]

Lots of interesting comments. My wife keeps telling me not to trust "Wiki" anything.