Recommended Coin Auctions? 1 1

[EagleRJO]

I have been looking for certain coins through online auctions with Great Collections (GC), Heritage Auctions (HA) and eBay but have not had much luck yet.  Particularly with raw coins, which I haven't even seen on GC and HA, and it's pretty much overpriced poor grade or cleaned garbage for raw coins on eBay.

For slabbed coins eBay or GC (at a typ. 10% buyer premium) are an option.  But I just realized that HA charges a 20% buyer premium on most of the coins.  Thats adding $400 to a $2,000 coin for say some early year double eagles I am interested in buying.  So, HA is a no-go as overpriced imo.

Any other decent places to find coins to bid on or where you can make offers even if it's to be bid.  Particularly raw coins which I prefer, for other than really expensive coins which I do plan to get slabbed.  Like maybe iCollector.com, but it looks like they are at a 15% premium, and I haven't heard them mentioned on the forum.  Any recommendations or suggestions to check out, particularly for raw coins, would be appreciated.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:43 AM, EagleRJO said:

I have been looking for certain coins through online auctions with Great Collections (GC), Heritage Auctions (HA) and eBay but have not had much luck yet.  Particularly with raw coins, which I haven't even seen on GC and HA, and it's pretty much overpriced poor grade or cleaned garbage for raw coins on eBay. For slabbed coins eBay or GC (at a typ. 10% buyer premium) are an option.  But I just realized that HA charges a 20% buyer premium on most of the coins.  Thats adding $400 to a $2,000 coin for say some early year double eagles I am interested in buying.  So, HA is a no-go as overpriced imo.  Any other decent places to find coins to bid on or where you can make offers even if it's to be bid.  Particularly raw coins which I prefer, for other than really expensive coins which I do plan to get slabbed.  Like maybe iCollector.com, but it looks like they are at a 15% premium, and I haven't heard them mentioned on the forum.  Any recommendations or suggestions to check out, particularly for raw coins, would be appreciated.

Keep in mind that you pay up for the convenience of being able to buy with a few keystrokes, as opposed to driving around town or out of state or attending a far-away coin show.  You save expenses and time, which in some/many cases can be well worth it.

Now, a $400 premium on a $2,000 coin is a bit excessive....sounds like a generic common, which I agree the TOTAL cost should be just over $2,000....not $2,000 plus another $400.  Sometimes these auctions have the total price, including the bp (buyers premium), at or just above the common retail price.  Other times, it's way over.  Depends on the coin and availability and how many are interested in it.

I don't see too many low-MS graded Saints on GC or HA because sellers don't want to sell at a price that when you add in the BP the total cost to the buyer is about what coins like that should trade for....they might lose $$$ on it.....you see more Saints (and other coins) which are high-grades where the markup can be more easily digested for a hard-to-get coin or a really nice premiuum coin where the seller is more price-insensitive if he/she likes that particular coin.

Edited July 26, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[EagleRJO]

Looks like there are a bunch of lower MS Saints at HA which didn't sell because the reserve set was well over $2,000, plus the 20% buyers fee puts it over $2,400 for just an average one.  Plus, HA doesn't waive the 20% buyers fee on offers or buy-it-now like GC does, even though for that they still get the sellers fee both HA and GC charge (typically like 5% to 10% on top of the buyers' fee).  So, unless it's a super rare item not available through GC I will pass on using HA.

Edited July 26, 2022 by EagleRJO

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/26/2022 at 11:25 AM, EagleRJO said:

Looks like there are a bunch of lower MS Saints at HA which didn't sell because the reserve set was well over $2,000, plus the 20% buyers fee puts it over $2,400 for just an average one.  Plus, HA doesn't waive the 20% buyers fee on offers or buy-it-now like GC does, even though for that they still get the sellers fee both HA and GC charge (typically like 5% to 10% on top of the buyers' fee).  So, unless it's a super rare item not available through GC I will pass on using HA.

I love HA and their archived information and all that they do to promote our hobby..... but at times I do wish they would run "specials" where the BP was 10-12%, especially on more common stuff.  I know their overhead is high but losing 5-10% on a small number of lower-priced items shouldn't put too much of a dent in their bottom line.

[EagleRJO]

For a common coin that's price gouging, and they don't even waive the buyers fee for offers like GC does.  I will not be visiting their site any time soon to buy coins.

So, it can't just be GC that seems reasonable.  Any other suggestions, particularly for raw coins which GC doesn't seem to carry?

 

[zadok]

...unless there is a set reserve, the buyers % is irrelevant, u just offset it in ur max bid, if u dont want to pay $2400 only bid $1700...but to answer ur question, Stacks used to have an annual auction where they offered all the various uncertified coins from various consignors, i havent checked in recent years but im sure a simple phone call will give u the answer...u have to ask urself though why the coins were not certified?....

[Sandon]

   I've participated in StacksBowers' auctions (stacksbowers.com) for some years now.  While "there is no Santa Claus in numismatics", I have occasionally been able to get some good deals (20% off retail list, on a few occasions even more), although this has become more difficult since 2020.  You have to study every lot in which you may have an interest.  It's also advisable to attend lot viewing it you're able to do so, as no photo can fully depict all the aspects of a coin.  I don't like buyers' fees either, but I don't pay any extra for them.  I decide what the maximum is I'm willing to pay for the lot, divide by 1.2 (for a 20% buyer's fee), and round the result down to the nearest acceptable bid.  You also have to consider the cost of shipping and any applicable sales tax.  In my view you buy at auction to pay less than retail, unless the coin you're bidding on is very difficult to find elsewhere or it's an exceptional specimen for its grade.  I usually am outbid on most, sometimes all, of my lots, but the ones I get make it worthwhile.  (Of course, you have to be ready to pay for all the lots you've bid on.)

   Regarding Zadok's comment, the vast majority of lots at major coin auctions are certified nowadays. Stacks merged with Bowers & Merena and ANR to form StacksBowers in or about 2011.  I haven't seen any auctions of only uncertified coins, though there are some, usually in the "internet only" portions of the auction and are frequently album, group or roll lots, not individual coins.  I've also seen such lots at Goldberg auctions (goldbergcoins.com).  You should have a good understanding of grading and the ability to recognize impaired, altered or counterfeit coins wherever you buy uncertified coins.  Local live coin auctions (usually also on the internet these days) are also a possibility. Once again, you have to know what you're doing to avoid overpaying, as there is frequently no warranty, especially as to grade.  (Wherever you bid, you should review the terms of sale.)

[VKurtB]

Use auctionzip.com. Search on zip code 17101 (Harrisburg), specify a 50 or 100 mile radius. Use the search term “coin”. Then plan your move to there. 

[EagleRJO]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:08 PM, zadok said:

...unless there is a set reserve, the buyers % is irrelevant, u just offset it in ur max bid, if u dont want to pay $2400 only bid $1700

Thats what I have been doing, but it's going nowhere with the reserves people are typically setting for the coins I have been looking at and ppl bidding book value, maybe noobs not realizing they will get hit with another 20% on top ... smh

[EagleRJO]

On 7/26/2022 at 2:49 PM, VKurtB said:

Use auctionzip.com. Search on zip code 17101 (Harrisburg), specify a 50 or 100 mile radius. Use the search term “coin”. Then plan your move to there. 

Thanks, looks like there are a lot more local auctions than I thought.  I will definitely check out some of them.

[World Colonial]

On 7/26/2022 at 3:29 PM, EagleRJO said:

Thats what I have been doing, but it's going nowhere with the reserves people are typically setting for the coins I have been looking at and ppl bidding book value, maybe noobs not realizing they will get hit with another 20% on top ... smh

The coins you have mentioned as wanting to buy are common.  If you don't mind waiting, I'd just keep on bidding on those you like at the max you are willing to pay and maybe you will win one eventually.  If you don't like waiting, I'd just buy from a dealer.

You can also check iCollector.  Many less recognized auctions there (probably like Aucitonzip) but I can't give an opinion on hardly any I see on it.  Dan Sedwick's Treasure Auctions uses iCollector and is the only one I have bought from, but his specialty is Spanish cob coinage.  (He offers some US, but I have never looked.)

[World Colonial]

On 7/26/2022 at 11:58 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I love HA and their archived information and all that they do to promote our hobby..... but at times I do wish they would run "specials" where the BP was 10-12%, especially on more common stuff.  I know their overhead is high but losing 5-10% on a small number of lower-priced items shouldn't put too much of a dent in their bottom line.

Heritage minimum buyer's fee is now $29, up from $19 before COVID.  

Not sure what price range you have in mind for "lower priced", but it's my inference that they must have made this change because handling a large number of low value coins isn't worth the effort.  I will still buy a low priced coin (below $150 where the $29 minimum is more than 20% - from them if I can't find it anywhere else, but I'd never sell in this price range through them.

[World Colonial]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:51 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't see too many low-MS graded Saints on GC or HA because sellers don't want to sell at a price that when you add in the BP the total cost to the buyer is about what coins like that should trade for....they might lose $$$ on it.....you see more Saints (and other coins) which are high-grades where the markup can be more easily digested for a hard-to-get coin or a really nice premiuum coin where the seller is more price-insensitive if he/she likes that particular coin.

It only makes sense to sell this type of coin (or practically any NCLT) through them with a discounted rate.  I don't know if large value consigners get rebates on this type of coin (more than 100% of hammer).  Otherwise, you run the risk of netting less than melt.

[EagleRJO]

On 7/26/2022 at 6:23 PM, World Colonial said:

The coins you have mentioned as wanting to buy are common.  If you don't mind waiting, I'd just keep on bidding on those you like at the max you are willing to pay and maybe you will win one eventually.  If you don't like waiting, I'd just buy from a dealer.

One of the coins I am looking for is a $20 Saint, and I already priced a few out with some of the larger dealers which is where I saw that special $20 Saint with a "Prospector Label" I posted for ~$2,000 which isn't bad since I liked the label, but still a little pricy imo.  I don't mind waiting for a bit or sticking with GC since they have more reasonable buyers' fees which brings up my actual hammer bid prices a bit, and was mostly curious if there were others out there like GC to increase my options.  Or in particular, ones that handle raw coins which the bigger auction houses don't seem to handle.  So far, it's only eBay on raw coins which is really a no-go. 

On 7/26/2022 at 6:23 PM, World Colonial said:

You can also check iCollector.  Many less recognized auctions there (probably like Aucitonzip) but I can't give an opinion on hardly any I see on it.  Dan Sedwick's Treasure Auctions uses iCollector and is the only one I have bought from, but his specialty is Spanish cob coinage.  (He offers some US, but I have never looked.)

Thanks, I saw iCollector and might give them a shot because I think they are at like a 15% buyers' premium that may not constantly put me under on hammer bids (say $1,650 hammer bid would be $1,900 total for that Saint I was looking into).  GC does have a 15% buyers' premium, but most of the ones I am interested in are dropped down to 10% which I don't think is that bad.  Do you know if iCollector waives the buyers' fees on offered set prices like GC?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:02 PM, EagleRJO said:

One of the coins I am looking for is a $20 Saint, and I already priced a few out with some of the larger dealers which is where I saw that special $20 Saint with a "Prospector Label" I posted for ~$2,000 which isn't bad since I liked the label, but still a little pricy imo. 

If I recall...that coin was "Brilliant Uncirculated" from a mass gold seller like Apmex or someone.  So paying $2,000 for a coin that is probably equivalent to an MS-63 (I think that's what BU equates to) is very pricey.  At that level, you should be closer to spot gold of $1,720 or so. 

I would pay $1,750 tops for a common Saint which is about a $90 premium ($30 cost, $60 for gold quantity differential under 1 ounce).  That's assuming I like the coin and the holder it is in.

Sometimes you find a coin that is properly graded but has the "damage" in areas you are less sensitive about whether it is the rim, fields, devices, etc.

[World Colonial]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:02 PM, EagleRJO said:

Do you know if iCollector waives the buyers' fees on offered set prices like GC?

iCollector is not an auctioneer.  It's only a hosting site.

[VKurtB]

Think of iCollector as an IT consultant for auctioneers who don’t have time to spend on doing IT for themselves. 

[EagleRJO]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:24 PM, World Colonial said:

iCollector is not an auctioneer.  It's only a hosting site.

Okay, thanks.  Then that must have been the auctioneer they were hosting with the 15% BP.  I just saw one at iCollector for a 12.5% BP, which is around GC at a 15% BP that they typ. drop to a 10% BP if you pay with an eCheck.

On 7/26/2022 at 9:19 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If I recall...that coin was "Brilliant Uncirculated" from a mass gold seller like Apmex or someone.  So paying $2,000 for a coin that is probably equivalent to an MS-63 (I think that's what BU equates to) is very pricey.  At that level, you should be closer to spot gold of $1,720 or so.

Yea that was a BU (not Gem Unc.) which would realistically grade out between MS-60 and MS-65, with the typ. being MS-62 to MS-63.  Even though they say anywhere between MS-60 to MS-70 I'm sure they have picked through the Unc. ones they get to grab Gem Unc. winners to get graded that are more likely to come back as high MS close to MS-68 to MS-70 for them to sell at a higher profit.  The only reason I was considering that one was the unique PCGS label which I thought looked really nice and might increase the value somewhat.

I think hammer bids that stick at a little above spot at say $1,750 ($1,725 + $25) is going to be a no-go cause that would be a hammer bid of about $1,520 at a 15% BP and then only about $1,450 to the seller with the typ. 5% min sellers fee those guys also charge.  Who bought a $20 Saint for under $1,450 unless it was back pre 2018 and doesn't want to hold it till prices go back up if they have held it for that long?  Probably not many.  So that's why I was thinking around $1,800 to $1,900 total, which would be about $1,640 to $1,730 at GC with the 10% BP.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/26/2022 at 10:06 PM, EagleRJO said:

I think hammer bids that stick at a little above spot at say $1,750 ($1,725 + $25) is going to be a no-go cause that would be a hammer bid of about $1,520 at a 15% BP and then only about $1,450 to the seller with the typ. 5% min sellers fee those guys also charge.  Who bought a $20 Saint for under $1,450 unless it was back pre 2018 and doesn't want to hold it till prices go back up if they have held it for that long?  Probably not many.  So that's why I was thinking around $1,800 to $1,900 total, which would be about $1,640 to $1,730 at GC with the 10% BP.

Check out your local coin shops or a local coin show.

For a common Saint like you are seeking, you're paying a convenience premium buying online for ease, quickness, etc.  It's one thing to pay a premium price for a tough coin to find or one you really like.  But since this is a common generic Saint, you will probably find the best price at a LCS....unless and until you get lucky bidding on someone who bought theirs cheap and will let it go for bullion spot or a bit below plus a modest premium including the BP.

Edited July 27, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[EagleRJO]

Unfortunately, I am in NY just outside NY City where due to the COL the LCS's are typ. 15% to 20% higher than what I can get coins for through one of the larger online dealers or what some coins have been selling for on GC if I wait.

There is a local coin show locally once a month, but from speaking to someone the selection of coins is pretty limited and, except for an occasional deal, priced around what a LCS may have them for.  I am still planning on checking it out, but that's not looking like a good prospect ATM.

So, I have been mostly looking for online solutions for the coins I am interested in.  I am starting to get the feeling I should just stick with GC since they have a good selection and only have a 10% buyers' premium if you pay by eCheck so I can make reasonable hammer bids.  Still doesn't solve the issue of not being able to find any good online solutions to finding decent raw coins, which is my preference and GC doesn't carry, other than the larger online dealers.  Idk, I might get lucky with some raw coins thru eBay, although it's mostly overpriced/cleaned garbage so far.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:39 PM, EagleRJO said:

Unfortunately, I am in NY just outside NY City where due to the COL the LCS's are typ. 15% to 20% higher than what I can get coins for through one of the larger online dealers or what some coins have been selling for on GC if I wait.

Me too....the Garden State/Parsippany Coin Show is pretty good.  Ditto Mt. Kisco and the Westchester shows (assuming it's still alive).

Patience ! 

 

[EagleRJO]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:46 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Me too....the Garden State/Parsippany Coin Show is pretty good.  Ditto Mt. Kisco and the Westchester shows (assuming it's still alive).

Kewl ... I'll keep an eye out for those.  

But it looks like the last ones they had at Mt. Kisco and Westchester were in 2021 before the pandemic, with none scheduled.  Had one near me too, bummer.

Edited July 27, 2022 by EagleRJO

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/27/2022 at 1:53 PM, EagleRJO said:

Kewl ... I'll keep an eye out for those.  

But it looks like the last ones they had at Mt. Kisco and Westchester were in 2021 before the pandemic, with none scheduled.  Had one near me too, bummer.

Last I checked, Parsiappany was back and strong (I went last year) and Mt. Kisco I believe I went after Covid hit but I am not 100% sure.  I know I went right before Covid hit because it was before or after I went to FUN 2020 in January 2020.  My mind is a bit fuzzy on when I last attended.

I'll try and see if the shows are all looking at 2022 dates.  Westchester (which was fading) was a quarterly show; Mt Kisco (which was rising) was supposed to be quarterly (I think) before Covid interrupted.

[GBrad]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:39 PM, EagleRJO said:

So, I have been mostly looking for online solutions for the coins I am interested in.  I am starting to get the feeling I should just stick with GC since they have a good selection and only have a 10% buyers' premium if you pay by eCheck so I can make reasonable hammer bids.  Still doesn't solve the issue of not being able to find any good online solutions to finding decent raw coins, which is my preference and GC doesn't carry, other than the larger online dealers.  Idk, I might get lucky with some raw coins thru eBay, although it's mostly overpriced/cleaned garbage so far.

Hello RJO. Long comment coming up here...  I see you have looked into GC.  I was recommended GC by members here on the forum a year or so ago when I was in the market for some slabs.  I have since used them numerous times and could not be more pleased with Ian and his staff.  Their customer service has been above and beyond for me personally.  Below is a breakdown of their BP for anyone interested that may not already know.  

I have also had very good luck with L&C coins.  I have purchased several raw and slabbed from them.  I have also been overly pleased with their customer service.  For example, I purchased an ASE last year from them graded at MS69 by a major TPG.  When I received it in the mail, I was flabbergasted. I would not have put it anywhere remotely near an MS69, but closer to MS65 and that's being generous (must have been a very early Monday morning or a late Friday afternoon when that puppy got graded and sandwiched). I immediately made a quick phone call to them about the issue and they did not hesitate in requesting I return it.  They made me very happy by replacing it with another same year ASE that was absolutely an MS69 this time.  Needless to say, I was extremely pleased with their response to my concerns, quick turnaround time and friendly staff. One caveat though; I do feel that they should have very briefly examined the original coin they sent prior to shipping it to me.  A 5th grader could have seen the flaws, blemishes and dings on it and they could have swapped it out then so as to alleviate the return process.  Stuff happens though, we are all human, and I'm not complaining, just a hindsight thought.

One other company I have not purchased from, and cannot recommend based on their product(s), but thought I would mention them here.  I'm not sure if anyone here has dealt with Coin Advisor and can give some good/bad feedback on them, but they assigned me a personal company rep. (who's name I won't mention here) that was Johnny on the spot for me.  Yeah....little ol' me, GBrad whom they have never met, and I have never purchased from them.  I was in the market for a particular raw Morgan and asked the rep. if he would keep an eye out for me for the year and mint I needed. However, I wound up getting very lucky (I believe it was the same day as my conversation with this rep.) and I came across the coin I needed (raw) on eBay.  Obviously, you have to be careful on the Bay, but for the price (my winning bid) I decided to take the gamble. I couldn't have been more pleased, or better yet completely surprised, when I received this coin.  I definitely scored on that one!  

So.....back to Coin Advisor. The rep. called me a week later and had several he'd found for me raw, but I inadvertently felt horrible in forgetting to call him back to let him know I'd already purchased one.  The rep. had no problem with my "incompetence", expressed himself that he was just glad that I'd found what I needed, and there were ZERO hard feelings at all.  He continues to still politely and professionally call me from time to time (even after I did what I did to him which is NOT the way I operate, I simply forgot to call him and I still feel bad to this day about that). The rep and I still discussed the coins he had found for me and they were all very competitively priced.  Had I not of already found the one on eBay I bought, I would have definitely purchased from them simply due to the phenomenal customer service and diligence this representative exhibited.  That's all I can really say about Coin Advisor at this point in time, but I will definitely give them a shot in the future if I ever come upon some more "play money" for my hobby.  If you would like to PM me, I will be glad to give you this rep's contact name and number. Maybe he can find what it is you are looking for.  

I hope at least some of this "book" I just wrote is of a little help. Good Luck! 👍

Below is copy and pasted from GC:

Do you charge a buyer's fee?

Ian Russell on Mon, Aug 21, 2017 11:51:59 AM

Only our auctions attract a buyer's fee.

GreatCollections Standard 12.5% buyer's fee (min $5) - if invoice paid by PayPal or Credit Cards

GreatCollections Discounted 10% buyer's fee (min $5) - if invoice paid by Check, eCheck or Wire.

Please note all Buy Now items are at a fixed price, and do not attract any buyer's fee.