What's Up With Crypto? 3 3

[zadok]

...im still waiting for the relevance of crypto to coin collecting...but i have time....

[VKurtB]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:25 PM, zadok said:

...im still waiting for the relevance of crypto to coin collecting...but i have time....

Here it is: crypto is the anti-gold. Crypto is absolutely nothing. It can never have ANY intrinsic value. It is “ephemeral on steroids”. Gold does possess something approaching intrinsic value, yet it draws its SPECIFIC value by the same mechanism that crypto does its specific value - mass hysteria. The thing they have in common is lack of government or central bank control (so far - but just hide and watch) over their values, and THAT is the whole point. At heart, most goldbugs and crypto jockeys are wannabe crooks. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 6/16/2022 at 8:08 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I will hereby publicly challenge anyone (and I mean anyone) to explain how crypto currencies generate revenue/profit in 1-2 sentences.  One catch, you can't use any derivative of speculation (i.e. it's the future of money, and all other money is going away).  How are we generating revenue today?

@EagleRJO Thanks for the article, but it doesn't begin to touch my challenge.  I am very aware how blockchain technology makes money, and this technology is being used in much broader application than crypto.  I can explain block chain in a sentence.  "Blockchain technology makes money by allowing business to police/audit transactions, tying those transactions to available inventory of goods/services (or crypto) without manual intervention."(Walmart uses blockchain)

My challenge to the world on crypto stands..........

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 8/5/2022 at 12:07 PM, EagleRJO said:

just one sentence:  Profit and loss is based on differences in valuation, with valuation resulting primarily from supply and demand. 

....And without a valuation that includes tangible things people can wrap their heads around, that can drop like a rock and then poof its completely gone into the ethers like some have. 

I think this definition is stating "speculation" without saying "speculation"... those tangible things are fundamentals.

Note - for the record... I don't hate on anyone who makes money in crypto, or any other legal investment.  If you are winning here - awesome.  I am too risk averse to jump into what I cannot understand.  Unfortunately, the definition did not provide for greater understanding.

Edited August 5, 2022 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[EagleRJO]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:51 PM, EagleRJO said:

...I'm not a Crypto person ... although my son made a killing on I think Ethereum with a buy in 2019 at a ridiculous low ... 

It was ETH and he tried to get me to go in also, to which I responded something along the lines of "it's just a made-up thing that has no intrinsic value that could just disappear", or something like that.

Meanwhile, years later I am still trying to identify low pivot points for gold spot prices and more recently trying to figure out how to properly assess valuation and what a break-even purchase point might be for a whizzed 1893-S Morgan Silver Dollar. 

On 8/5/2022 at 4:25 PM, zadok said:

...im still waiting for the relevance of crypto to coin collecting...but i have time....

Well, they both are really just collectibles that at its core are meant to enable purchasing or valuing something, and there are some people that actively collect the physical bitcoins. 

On 8/5/2022 at 7:06 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

I think this definition is stating "speculation" without saying "speculation"...

Very true.

You could substitute "speculation" for "valuation" when it comes to crypto, or perhaps it may be more correct to just say "price" in my over-simplified analysis.  Funny thing is crypto was supposed to be the currency end game, independent of central bank control or market conditions.  What happened to that with the recent crypto cratering and some crashes.  Seems they forgot that with poor market conditions people may think it will not hold value so they start selling it off, with that plummeting demand tanking prices, and in some cases making it disappear in a short time.  Just my two (Indian Head) Nickels.

Edited August 7, 2022 by EagleRJO

[tamariecho3]

It’s the most controversial topic I may have ever witnessed. Anyway, that’s the reason I love it. You know, I’ve been trading cryptocurrency for 6 years, and I know a bit about its main processes. Actually, it’s really hard to tell whether the crypto investment can be 100% profitable, but cryptocurrency is the future. And we must agree with that. That’s why we should start studying it immediately. I started trading by applying a crypto pairs trading strategy. It allowed me to save most of my investments. And still, I’ve got no regrets about it. Cryptocurrency has made my life better. That’s what I think of it. BW

Edited August 16, 2022 by tamariecho3

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/8/2022 at 4:04 AM, tamariecho3 said:

It’s the most controversial topic I may have ever witnessed. Anyway, that’s the reason I love it.

Crypto and BitCoin ?  LOTS more controversial items in finance over the decades, IMO ! 

[wadiihindu]

Proponents of conspiracy theories think that cryptocurrency is bad, but I think that cryptocurrency really gives people the opportunity to earn money. Investments are always a risk, so before you invest your money anywhere, it is important to learn everything about the project. Currently, the cryptocurrency market is in crisis, so I don't trade crypto. I use crypto as a deposit. On this site https://hodlrate.com/, I found the most profitable way to invest crypto. I get the stable income every month without doing anything.

Edited September 4, 2022 by wadiihindu

[VKurtB]

On 9/1/2022 at 3:00 PM, wadiihindu said:

Proponents of conspiracy theories think that cryptocurrency is bad, but I think that cryptocurrency really gives people the opportunity to earn money. Investments are always a risk, so before you invest your money anywhere, it is important to learn everything about the project.

Definition of a conspiracy theorist: a guy who figures things out before most people do. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/1/2022 at 4:07 PM, VKurtB said:

Definition of a conspiracy theorist: a guy who figures things out before most people do. 

If this is an indirect suggestion there is merit to my sister's claims the crash of Kennedy's plane bound for Martha's Vineyard was sabotage (patently ridiculous) or all the best doctors in America not in Big Pharma's pocket, were disappeared per plan, I ain't buyin' it!   

[VKurtB]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:49 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

If this is an indirect suggestion there is merit to my sister's claims the crash of Kennedy's plane bound for Martha's Vineyard was sabotage (patently ridiculous) or all the best doctors in America not in Big Pharma's pocket, were disappeared per plan, I ain't buyin' it!   

On the west shore of the Susquehanna River, right across from Harrisburg, PA, there was a Director of Medicine at the local hospital there who insisted that THEIR OWN TRIALS showed that hydrochloroquine (HCQ) was a valid treatment for early stage COVID, during the early months of 2020. People literally tried to get him fired for having a “different opinion” from other M.D.‘s. 
 

The hospital has a “Catholic hospital” name but is part of the Penn State medical system, as was mine - Hershey Med. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

I was given an Emergency Use Authorization "infusion," via Heparin lock, of Lilly's 4-vial BEBTELOVIMAB. I was told no one's heard of it; nobody knows anything about it. When you've fallen and hurt yourself, your game for anything.  My problem is, I am a people pleaser. A polite way of saying, "we've got a live guinea pig here!"    

[VKurtB]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:46 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I was given an Emergency Use Authorization "infusion," via Heparin lock, of Lilly's 4-vial BEBTELOVIMAB. I was told no one's heard of it; nobody knows anything about it. When you've fallen and hurt yourself, your game for anything.  My problem is, I am a people pleaser. A polite way of saying, "we've got a live guinea pig here!"    

I’m a certified Guinea pig too. I’m in a double blind vaccine trial right now. With my luck, I’ll get the disease and be in the placebo group. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:17 PM, VKurtB said:

I’m a certified Guinea pig too. I’m in a double blind vaccine trial right now. With my luck, I’ll get the disease and be in the placebo group. 

I certainly hope not. I green-lighted a procedure to correct atrial fibrilation--without asking a single question. Lenox Hill referred to me as PATIENT # 1, after the infusion with that drug nobody heard of. The more polite folks who didn't say I was nuts or crazy, simply settled for, Well, I would have done things differently. Not me. I'm not unlike that prisoner who ordered the guard at the gas chamber: "Step on the gas!" I like to keep things moving.  🐓 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/1/2022 at 4:00 PM, wadiihindu said:

Proponents of conspiracy theories think that cryptocurrency is bad, but I think that cryptocurrency really gives people the opportunity to earn money. Investments are always a risk, so before you invest your money anywhere, it is important to learn everything about the project.

Warren Buffet thinks cryptos are bad and he's not a conspiracy theorist.

It's about intrinsic value and whether these things can deliver what they promise.

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:27 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Warren Buffet thinks cryptos are bad and he's not a conspiracy theorist.

It's about intrinsic value and whether these things can deliver what they promise.

But can future performance be reliably predicted [much less] guaranteed by past performance? Q.A. is going to continue to sit on the fence on this one. Besides, I am way too hold to be dabbling in anything that is highly volatile.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:11 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

But can future performance be reliably predicted [much less] guaranteed by past performance?

I assume you don't read the fine print of investment prospectuses.

On 9/2/2022 at 2:11 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

... I am way [to old] to be dabbling in anything that is highly volatile.

Didn't you ever play spin the bottle or craps in the back alley? It would be kind of like re-living your younger days! 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:23 PM, EagleRJO said:

I assume you don't read the fine print of investment prospectuses.

Didn't you ever play spin the bottle or craps in the back alley? It would be kind of like re-living your younger days! 

Apt analogy.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:49 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

....or all the best doctors in America not in Big Pharma's pocket, were disappeared per plan, I ain't buyin' it!   

Smart move.  I think if all the "best doctors" were in Big Pharma's pocket, their stock prices wouldn't be flat over 2 decades.

Also "Small Pharma" hasn't done much to create life-saving drugs and other wonder drugs so God Bless Big Pharma. 

[VKurtB]

On 9/2/2022 at 7:58 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Smart move.  I think if all the "best doctors" were in Big Pharma's pocket, their stock prices wouldn't be flat over 2 decades.

Also "Small Pharma" hasn't done much to create life-saving drugs and other wonder drugs so God Bless Big Pharma. 

Yes, this. If not for “Big Pharma”, I would have been dead in 2009. 

[World Colonial]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:27 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Warren Buffet thinks cryptos are bad and he's not a conspiracy theorist.

It's about intrinsic value and whether these things can deliver what they promise.

Read the prior post to which you replied.  What the prior post actually meant is that crypto provides the opportunity to transfer money from the pocket of person "A" into the pocket of person "B".  Crypto is nothing, so it can't actually generate any real wealth meaning everyone can't be better off in the aggregate.

It has value - for now - until either government takes it over and eliminates all private alternatives (my prediction) or the end of the mania reduces the value of every single one to its correct value, zero.

No, there is no long-term third option since no one has to accept it for anything which means it isn't a real currency.

[Henri Charriere]

@World Colonial:

I like how you can effective reduce, dispatch, as it were, a global phenomenon, with just a few lines. As I have said, previously, there is no voice like yours on the Forum.  

[VKurtB]

Gold is a thing without a value. Crypto is a value without a thing. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/4/2022 at 8:00 PM, VKurtB said:

Gold is a thing without a value. 

As a metal, it has value in certain mechanical and other instruments.

[World Colonial]

On 9/4/2022 at 9:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As a metal, it has value in certain mechanical and other instruments.

The primary reason gold isn't more widely used in industry is because of its price, not its lack of utility.  There are cheaper options (like silver), at least for most applications.  Being a gold hater doesn't change this fact.

I don't hate crypto, I just know that it's current value (for all 19,000+) is (almost) entirely due to the bigger asset mania.  Whatever utility it has bears no relation to the price, no government backs it to provide base demand, and it has no extended history as a store of value.  If the major asset classes (stocks, bonds, and real estate) crash but somehow crypto (presumably BTC) prices mostly remain intact, I'll admit my error.  I'm sure somebody will remind me.

There is no comparison whatsoever.

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/4/2022 at 8:00 PM, VKurtB said:

Gold is a thing without a value. Crypto is a value without a thing. 

This is a very harsh assessment/blanket condemnation.  I should have an answer for you before the summer's up.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:08 PM, World Colonial said:

The primary reason gold isn't more widely used in industry is because of its price, not its lack of utility.  There are cheaper options (like silver), at least for most applications.  Being a gold hater doesn't change this fact.

Gold was key in the James Webb Space Telescope. 

On 9/4/2022 at 10:08 PM, World Colonial said:

I don't hate crypto, I just know that it's current value (for all 19,000+) is (almost) entirely due to the bigger asset mania.  Whatever utility it has bears no relation to the price, no government backs it to provide base demand, and it has no extended history as a store of value.  If the major asset classes (stocks, bonds, and real estate) crash but somehow crypto (presumably BTC) prices mostly remain intact, I'll admit my error.  I'm sure somebody will remind me.  There is no comparison whatsoever.

If you mean no comparison to gold, I agree. 

[World Colonial]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:41 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If you mean no comparison to gold, I agree. 

Yes

Store of value for all of recorded history means something.  Tangible substance versus electronic 1s and 0s also means something.

I haven't changed my mind that gold is relatively overvalued versus many things, but it's not effectively infinitely relatively overvalued like crypto.

[VKurtB]

On 9/5/2022 at 5:41 PM, World Colonial said:

Yes

Store of value for all of recorded history means something.  Tangible substance versus electronic 1s and 0s also means something.

I haven't changed my mind that gold is relatively overvalued versus many things, but it's not effectively infinitely relatively overvalued like crypto.

Absolutely correct. As Warren Buffett has said many times, gold is ALMOST without utility. Crypto is completely without substance. 
 

As Mark Cuban once observed, “Everybody’s a genius in a bull market.”  How’re ya doin’ lately?

Edited September 6, 2022 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:28 PM, VKurtB said:

Absolutely correct. As Warren Buffett has said many times, gold is ALMOST without utility. Crypto is completely without substance. 

What's your point?  I don't disagree.

On 9/5/2022 at 8:28 PM, VKurtB said:

As Mark Cuban once observed, “Everybody’s a genius in a bull market.”  How’re ya doin’ lately?

I haven't lost a cent because I stayed out during the mania.  Others will call me a fool for not participating in the biggest bubble in human history, but I don't measure my financial performance by other's opinions.  I'll still be better off than most people by not participating.  They aren't paying my bills, are they?

Contrary to what you presumably believe, I also know that we've lived through the biggest financial mania in history which is going to be followed by the biggest bust.