Grading procedure for bulk vs individual coin submission. 1 1

[shinrad]

Let's say I have ten exactly same brand new coins from the manufacturer. Does submitting one coin at a time but separately ten times increase the chance of getting all ten coins graded at MS70 versus submitting all ten coins at once? Does the grader know how many coins are from same submitter and do they grade all of it at once or does each coin get graded by different grader and they have no idea how many coins are submitted? I ask because I submitted 10 exactly same coins brand new and only 6 out of 10 got MS70. The other 4 got MS69 but I seriously cannot see any difference under magnifying glass. I want to know whether grader can be inclined to give some of the 10 coins less than MS70 just for the sake of not giving all ten coins perfect grade. Is this a possibility? 

[LISA B]

Hello Shinrad,

Thank you.  Our graders do not know who is submitting.  All coins are graded for what they are.  It would not benefit us to not grade the coins for what they are.  We do have dealers that will submit in bulk.  They will submit 100's of coins at a time.  With that being said, their odds of getting more 70's is greater.

Thank you,

Lisa

[shinrad]

My recent submission of 5 coins brand new all came back MS69 with one MS68. I don't understand how a brand new coin uncirculated can all have defects and not worthy of MS70. And what is this option for "Regrade" ? Why would you offer this option if your grading system was reliable? It seems to me this is just another way to collect submission fees on top of what was paid to get it graded the first time. Why would grade change the second time around? Is there a good chance that the first grading was in error? I'm beginning to feel this whole grading new coins is not worth the trouble. The fact that you offer "Regrade" with possibility of upgrade is a testament of unreliability. Isn't grading supposed to be objective not subjective? Will blemish disappear the second time around? Seems like it's a hit or miss type of deal. 

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the grading world, it is an imperfect, highly subjective world that is driven by opinions; and opinions are not reliable nor 100% repeatable.   Modern mint products are often even more susceptible to very minor differences in opinion as the grade range is very narrow.   Having said that, just because a coin is sitting in a mint capsule never out of the mint packaging does not automatically equate to perfection.

[Just Bob]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:16 AM, shinrad said:

 I'm beginning to feel this whole grading new coins is not worth the trouble. T

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner!!

[shinrad]

So basically I can keep resubmitting the coin until I get a lenient reviewer who will upgrade it? For the amount of cost I would be paying for grading and regrading I could have just bought the same coin with MS70 grade on eBay. At least now I don't regret buying the MS70 coins on eBay. I thought I could save some money grading them myself but the time and money spent on it and the likelihood of not getting MS70 is definitely not worth it. Besides, it is much more exciting to bet on eBay and there are some fine coins that you can win for less than its value. 

[Crruisercharlie]

I once submitted a Susan b straight from the mint wrapper that came back ungraded and labeled "scratched". Of course they kept the fees. I resubmitted the coin and again got it back with no grade. How could it have no grade?? Not even details??

[Crruisercharlie]

On 6/28/2022 at 11:45 AM, Crruisercharlie said:

I once submitted a Susan b straight from the mint wrapper that came back ungraded and labeled "scratched". Of course they kept the fees. I resubmitted the coin and again got it back with no grade. How could it have no grade?? Not even details??

After taking it to my local coin shop and having it looked at under a microscope they didn't find any scratches either

[shinrad]

So I resubmitted the brand new world silver coins for re-grade and they all came back same as before MS69 and MS68. Now I am certain this NGC grading is total scam. I have many other coins graded MS70 in much worse conditions with scratches on the edge and these coins are flawless. I had some credit left over from joining membership so I submitted for re-grade to use it up and they took the money and no upgrade for any coins. What a scam. lol. Total waste of money. Good thing I kept most of the valuable coins worth much more and almost all MS70 coins were bought cheaper on eBay than going through this nonsense fee after fee after fee. And if any of you think about grading Silver Eagles just forget it. It's not going to add a penny to its value since there are 100s of thousands floating around out there. The whole coin grading scam is to make money for NGC. Not sure how I managed to get seven MS70 coins from them before. Must've been lucky with a new inspector. lol. 

[Just Bob]

[shinrad]

Offering "Regrading" with no intention of upgrading but keeping the fees. It's a scam. I'm pretty sure they don't even take a look at the coin for regrading and slap on the case with new number and ship it right back. If they upgrade it's confirming they made a mistake the first time so chances are they won't upgrade 99% of all that is submitted for regrade but they get to keep all the fees. What a perfect scam system. That's probably the reason why they don't give out MS70 in the first place hoping newbies like me submit the coins again for regrade. That's why many prefer PCGS who grade the coins right the first time. They have better looking coin holders too. Time to move on to PCGS. 

[berlineagle]

You played the game and you lost, move on, move acrossed the street if that makes you happy. Ngc is a fine company and I for one am more than happy with them. Quick turn around times and answers when you ask them, see if you get that acrossed the street!

[shinrad]

You got that right. It's a game. Nothing professional here. Why don't you Google search "NGC Reviews" and see what people are saying. It's absolutely horrible. Regrading. LOL. I can't believe I fell for that one. That's their way of recouping the $150 credit you get for being a member. What a sham. I bet you crossed the street multiple times. lol. 

[Mactanboy]

IMHO no one who has submitted coins in any numbers has not been disappointed at NGC, PCGS, ANACS, ICG etc. Just a couple of thoughts from a medal collector. Most of the time submitting coins from the mint, unless they are gold or rare, costs more than the coin's value. Yes, the coin has a grade and is somewhat protected. To assume that any coin coming from the mint should always be an MS 70 is not a realistic assumption. Then there is the concern between an MS 69 and MS 70. I cannot tell the difference so I would never send in a coin for a "review." Like some of you, I have seen articles recommending collectors not have new coins slabbed since there are so many MS 69-70 specimens in the hands of collectors/dealers.

My collection areas are US Philippines 1903-45 and Philippine medals and tokens. If you look at the NGC census report you will see that for many years (1903-41) there are few or no grades above MS 65. I submit 40-60 items per year to NGC and I check all items 3-4 times in direct sunlight and under bright lights in search of scratches/imperfections. If I see any, I do not submit the coin/medal. If you follow Stacks or Heritage Auctions you will see that Phil coins in high grades (MS 65 and above) are recording records prices. Philippine medals from the Spanish period through WW II in AU and above are also bringing record prices.

My point is that, for me, grading by a third-party adds value to older and rarer coins. I would not buy a 1903-1912 US Philippine peso without it being graded by NGC or PCGS. Conversely, I would not submit a 2022 coin from the US or foreign mint because in my opinion it is not necessary. I realize that other collectors see this from the other side of the desk and I respect their opinion. To quibble about not getting the grade one wants--perfection or MS 70--is not something we as collectors have control over other than to complain among ourselves.