Who is the better grader of Indian Cents?

[libertycoins-migration]

I know PCGS grades Washington's and Lincolns better then NGC (or at least sale prices do). So, who is the better company to go with on RD and RB IHC?

[gmarguli]

Better is an odd term. Are you assuming that by better sale prices means better graders? If so, send me the coins, I'll grade all the coins 20 points under their market grade and I will point to the sale prices of these coins as ME being the best grader.

 

If you are looking for the most CONSISTENT graders, then NGC over PCGS.

 

If you are looking for who can be the biggest tight-[#@$%!!!] on grading, then PCGS over NGC.

 

If you're looking to keep the coins and just want them graded, then go with the service you think will do the overall best job.

 

Having had several Indians recently graded by NGC, I think they did a decent job grading them the way I felt they should grade. I have had no trouble selling them as solid prices.

[libertycoins-migration]

Going throuh auction archives, why would a PCGS MS 67 1958D 1c sell for more than $600 more then a NGC MS 67 1958D 1c. These auctions both occured in February of this year. This just seems odd to me if one isn't superior in a certain series. Maybe its just me.

[kryptonitecomics]

I don't usually take sides on PCGS vs NGC discussions as I really like both companies and typically have no problems with their grading standards etc. I recently purchased a nice RB Proof IHC that was recently graded by PCGS as a PR65.

 

I purchased the coin from one of the biggest names in IHC's and someone who has been grading them for longer than I have been alive. Along with my new PCGS coin he included the insert from NGC since the coin was originally housed in an NGC PR66RB holder.

 

I think his only reason for sending the coin to PCGS was due to the fact that it is darn near impossible to get a good image of a toned IHC in an NGC holder since the white plastic insert is quite a bit thicker than the coin so the coin can sometimes get lost in the holder when trying to image.

 

I looked the coin over with an 18X loop....then with a 7X loop.....I then pulled out about 10 other PR65 and MS65 IHC both PCGS and NGC to compare the surfaces, marks, strikes etc......

 

The coin I purchased is PR66 not a 65 as PCGS has labeled it. I know grading is subjective...and I typically don't take a firm stance on a grade..........but there is no one in there right mind that would call this coin a 65.......no one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Once I had reviewed the coin I sent an e-mail to the dealer telling him that I looked at the coin and believed that PCGS had gotten it wrong and that it was indeed a 66 like NGC had graded it. He of course agreed that it was a 66 hands down.

 

This is just one incident and 1 persons experience...not a pro NGC...I hate PCGS opinion........take it for what it's worth and good luck with whatever service you choose.

[libertycoins-migration]

If you don't mind me asking, who did you purchase your coin from?

[gmarguli]

Going throuh auction archives, why would a PCGS MS 67 1958D 1c sell for more than $600 more then a NGC MS 67 1958D 1c. These auctions both occured in February of this year. This just seems odd to me if one isn't superior in a certain series. Maybe its just me.

 

Again, you're equating "superior" with selling price. Consistency is the ONLY thing that matters with grading. Being a super strict grader doesn't do anything for anyone if you can't grade that way every time. PCGS has set out to be the strictest grading service. That appears to be their goal. They want an MS65 in their slab to sell for more than an MS65 in any other slab. That's great except if you are the submitter and the coin is really an MS66. You just got screwed and the selling price is distorted.

 

Think of it this way, assume your coins grade MS65 by market standards. Will you be happy with your coins in PCGS MS64 slabs, but selling for a 30% premium to an NGC MS64 OR would you be happy with you coin in an NGC MS65 slab selling for double that PCGS MS64, but less than a PCGS MS65?

 

Just because you can point to coins bringing more in one slab than another, don't assume the slab is causing that since those coins probably aren't created equal.

 

However, in the past NGC was clearly easier than PCGS on higher grade Lincoln cents. Right now, I dare anyone to try to upgrade some of these coins from PCGS to NGC. They'll be in for a very rude surprise when they come back the same. NGC has tightened up.

 

Also, many people will only buy PCGS graded coins because they want to participate in the PCGS registry. I personally think that is a moronic way of collecting COINS, since you are buying plastic first and the coin second.

[kryptonitecomics]

I don't want to mention the dealer publicly as I don't want to get him envolved in the he said she said debate...but it would be very easy for you to look up a recent thread I started about my newest addition to my proof IHC collection

 

Just as an FYI...I recently sold two top pop coins that were in NGC holders. Both coins were stunning with beautiful toning and the market decided they were worth pennies on the dollar since they had not been given the PCGS seal of approval.

 

The buyers got some fantastic coins for almost nothing.....I of course got hammered on the prices...but you win some you lose some and at least they went to good homes

[James_OldeTowne]

I think that, below grades of MS-64, the Indian head cent series is one of the easiest to grade, and find any of the major services to be adequate. At MS-64 and above, as is usually the case, too much politics comes into play (pop reports, who submitted the coin, etc), and the grading becomes too subjective, but for the typical collector, I think you are going to be fine with any of the major companies.

 

James

[chinook]

Better is an odd term. Are you assuming that by better sale prices means better graders? If so, send me the coins, I'll grade all the coins 20 points under their market grade and I will point to the sale prices of these coins as ME being the best grader.

 

If you are looking for the most CONSISTENT graders, then NGC over PCGS.

 

If you are looking for who can be the biggest tight-[#@$%!!!] on grading, then PCGS over NGC.

 

If you're looking to keep the coins and just want them graded, then go with the service you think will do the overall best job.

 

Having had several Indians recently graded by NGC, I think they did a decent job grading them the way I felt they should grade. I have had no trouble selling them as solid prices.

 

100% accurate comment by Greg.

[EZ_E]

The coin I purchased is PR66 not a 65 as PCGS has labeled it. I know grading is subjective...and I typically don't take a firm stance on a grade..........but there is no one in there right mind that would call this coin a 65.......no one!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Er...PCGS?

 

 

p.s. Greg, as always, you provided knowledgable advice tempered with experience.

 

p.p.s. Sounds like Rick Snow of Eagle Eye is the provider.