Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Hello coin community, Thank you so much for your time, I'm new to looking at my coins lol, I've been saving coin for a long time and have now decided to look through them. I'm still trying to learn what a cleaned coin looks like, mostly on older coins and differences in natural discoloring and something someone has done to a coin. I would appreciate any feedback. Also, if pics of a different part of the coin are needed, I can take one. Again, thank you to everyone for your time and all you do for this community and the coin community in general. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Hello Justin, welcome to the forum. What is your question on this 1964 Lincoln, very nice job on the photos, however we need to see full photos both obv and rev as well as any detail shots you can provide like you have in your op. Once we know what you are asking about we can help you with any information we have. What I see in your photos is a normal coin with some dings, spots, and fingerprint stains, the color does not look off but I would rather have the full coin photos before I comment on that aspect. This is not a coin that should be sent in for grading but could be a nice album coin. Make sure you do not clean any of the coins and always hold coins by the edge not the face of the coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 That one looks pretty natural. In general, the helpful thing is to know how coins get cleaned. There are two methods: chemical and abrasive. Chemical means may affect only surface crudulation, or they may be caustic enough to attack the metal. Abrasive methods are typically either lateral (side to side) or circular (as with a Dremel tool). Often people combine the two, rarely with good results. So with chemical, you are looking for unnatural color and/or residue. Especially if they don't like the result, cleaners will sometimes not bother removing all of the residue. With abrasives, you're looking for tiny scratches. A microscope is very helpful when assessing what has been done to a coin. The typical numismidiot--by this I mean someone who just decided to "get into coins," and thinks "if its shinny yo no1 will no if its unsurkalated so imma brasso it real good"--has zero idea the resources we have to detect and assess cleaning. We get them here every day. For natural looks, a proof looks mirror-finished (and sometimes they are impaired). Its color may have darkened, but you're looking at the surface. Old copper tends to turn brown, usually a very appealing chocolate or caramel color. New copper is bright and, well, coppery--your penny is a good example. Silver can tend to darken over time; when new, in coins, it often has a sort of faint buttery color, but it can tarnish to charcoal flat black and still be uncirculated, as circulation status doesn't mean level of shininess. A cleaned copper coin will usually have an unnatural coppery color, more pink than red-orange. Look for a coin with wear to the high points but too brightly colored. A cleaned silver coin will come out blast white, an unnatural color for a circulated silver coin. In the end, to get good at it, get a microscope and start examining coins. Even buy some that a dealer has marked down as "cleaned" so you can see what the symptoms are. Time invested here will pay off in better buying later. Keith Dee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Thank you Coinbuf and JKK for your replies. Coinbuf, My initial question was if this coin had been cleaned before, the 4 has some crud stuck to it but rest of coin looks good. Thank you, I waited until my microscope arrived before I posted pictures lol. This coin is in better shape then the one I have already so I want to swap them out but wanted to make sure this coin wasn't cleaned before I swap them in my album. Absolutely, I tell people all the time, leave your coins alone lol, quit washing them... JKK, Thank you for the explanation, as I have many coins for different runs that have just crazy colors and am just not sure as to what couldve happened to each coin. Im trying to get pics together of the different colors I have to gain some insight. Again, thank you both for your replies. Here are phone pics of O and R! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Nice photos! The 1964 is normal. tj96 and VKurtB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 11:32 AM, RWB said: Nice photos! The 1964 is normal. Thank you, waited until I received my microscope before posting photos. I was worried that the coin had been cleaned because of how shiny it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 not sure why my microscope images are so dark, I have an LED on both sides but images are still dark lol... Hopefully, I can figure my lighting out for coming posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 12:36 PM, Frantik said: not sure why my microscope images are so dark, I have an LED on both sides but images are still dark lol... Hopefully, I can figure my lighting out for coming posts... Can you manually set shutter speed and f stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 11:47 AM, VKurtB said: Can you manually set shutter speed and f stop? I don't see anything in the menu settings for that. All I have is Light Source Frequency, Line Assist, Resolution, Image Quality, and Sharpness, ISO, and Exposure Compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 12:54 PM, Frantik said: I don't see anything in the menu settings for that. All I have is Light Source Frequency, Line Assist, Resolution, Image Quality, and Sharpness, ISO, and Exposure Compensation. Then ISO and Exposure Comp are your best friends remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 11:56 AM, VKurtB said: Then ISO and Exposure Comp are your best friends remaining. Awesome, will have to play with each setting. Thank you so much for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj96 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Pictures......................... Frantik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) On 2/24/2022 at 1:36 PM, Frantik said: not sure why my microscope images are so dark, I have an LED on both sides but images are still dark lol... Hopefully, I can figure my lighting out for coming posts... Do you want something more like this, or like the 2nd pair of photos? Edited February 24, 2022 by RWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 2:27 PM, RWB said: Do you want something more like this, or like the 2nd pair of photos? That def looks a lot brighter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) OK. Your second pair of photos is almost exactly on a neutral white balance and density (that's what BKurtV was talking about). In your first photos the image density in the camera needs to be lightened, and the color balance adjusted to match your full-coin results. That is: change the camera settings for microscope to match those for the full-coin photos. If you are using everything on "automatic," find the manual settings (lens opening and shutter speed) at will match the full-coin image, then keep those for your microscope photos. Set the ISO for 400 - it is not for exposure, but for pixel binning, signal-to-noise, and other things affecting your photos that you can learn about later. I suspect we all would like to see more of your macro photos. Edited February 24, 2022 by RWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 2:41 PM, RWB said: OK. Your second pair of photos is almost exactly on a neutral white balance and density (that's what BKurtV was talking about). In your first photos the image density in the camera needs to be lightened, and the color balance adjusted to match your full-coin results. That is: change the camera settings for microscope to match those for the full-coin photos. If you are using everything on "automatic," find the manual settings (lens opening and shutter speed) at will match the full-coin image, then keep those for your microscope photos. Set the ISO for 400 - it is not for exposure, but for pixel binning and other things affecting your photos that you can learn about later. Hell yeah, thank you so much. Need to get this dialed in so I don't have to mess with photos so much. I'm on day 1 of playing with this new microscope, didn't think about seeing what settings were on unit until now. Maybe I should send back and find another one with the shudder settings as it doesn't have that. Will play with the other settings and see what I can figure out. I guess the photos aren't terrible but want the community to be able to look at an absolute almost perfect image as to give good opinions on my coins. Thank you again, appreciate all that everyone does on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Overall coin appearance with your microscope is fine. Few microscopes have any sort of exposure control, so work with your camera's manual settings to get results you like. Frantik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Awesome, I'm new to posting images so just want to make sure they are good for reviewing. I see so many people posting and not getting the help they need because of inadequate photos... Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 4:49 PM, Frantik said: Awesome, I'm new to posting images so just want to make sure they are good for reviewing. I see so many people posting and not getting the help they need because of inadequate photos... Your are absolutely right. Frantik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 1:49 PM, Frantik said: Awesome, I'm new to posting images so just want to make sure they are good for reviewing. I see so many people posting and not getting the help they need because of inadequate photos... Or none at all. Then get all mad because one of us told them how ridiculous it was to try and assess a coin without seeing it. Stick around here long enough, you will see some of the least intellectually capable people you could possibly imagine. They could all ask the same questions as you have, get a plethora of tips and guidance from people who know their photography (unlike me), and we'd do our best for them. They don't. You'll see fifty-line paragraphs, accusations of racism when we have no idea what color they are, and open trolling. Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 3:49 PM, JKK said: Or none at all. Then get all mad because one of us told them how ridiculous it was to try and assess a coin without seeing it. Stick around here long enough, you will see some of the least intellectually capable people you could possibly imagine. They could all ask the same questions as you have, get a plethora of tips and guidance from people who know their photography (unlike me), and we'd do our best for them. They don't. You'll see fifty-line paragraphs, accusations of racism when we have no idea what color they are, and open trolling. It's because they are on YouTube all day listening to these people pitch BS about your old coins being worth a fortune lol.... They should've got into Crypto. Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 2:52 PM, Frantik said: It's because they are on YouTube all day listening to these people pitch BS about your old coins being worth a fortune lol.... They should've got into Crypto. What part of CO? I used to live west of FoCo and mom was born in Denver, early years in Blackhawk, later in Cortez and Del Norte. Been over most of the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 3:58 PM, JKK said: What part of CO? I used to live west of FoCo and mom was born in Denver, early years in Blackhawk, later in Cortez and Del Norte. Been over most of the state. I'm just to the west of Englewood in Sheridan! Bout 30mins from Blackhawk/Central City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 4:00 PM, Frantik said: I'm just to the west of Englewood in Sheridan! Bout 30mins from Blackhawk/Central City. Wanted to move out of state but the wife never wanted to leave. Born and raised here, 38 years later... Wife now leaving me so maybe I'll leave finally. But can't stay away to long, love the seasons here. Winter and summer all the time... lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 3:00 PM, Frantik said: I'm just to the west of Englewood in Sheridan! Bout 30mins from Blackhawk/Central City. Been out that direction. If you know where Poudre Park is, we lived in that tiny little Front Range hamlet while my folks were going back to school. It was during the oil embargo years. Did a driving trip with a friend in my thirties (back when Simpleton was still the airport, backed right up to the old arsenal) and somehow failed to consider that thinner air at altitude plus summer temps will literally burn your skin off. By the time we got to SLC, the second layer was coming off and it was...real unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 4:41 PM, JKK said: Been out that direction. If you know where Poudre Park is, we lived in that tiny little Front Range hamlet while my folks were going back to school. It was during the oil embargo years. Did a driving trip with a friend in my thirties (back when Simpleton was still the airport, backed right up to the old arsenal) and somehow failed to consider that thinner air at altitude plus summer temps will literally burn your skin off. By the time we got to SLC, the second layer was coming off and it was...real unpleasant. Yes, been out there a few times. Stapleton is now a huge shopping and apartment center! That whole area is completely transformed! I70 has a park going on top of it as well towards Stapleton just past the Purina Plant! I know you didn't forget that plant! Still here, and still smells up the whole neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 3:47 PM, Frantik said: Yes, been out there a few times. Stapleton is now a huge shopping and apartment center! That whole area is completely transformed! I70 has a park going on top of it as well towards Stapleton just past the Purina Plant! I know you didn't forget that plant! Still here, and still smells up the whole neighborhood. I actually have never known Denver that well, since we only went down there a couple of times. It was a main hub so I ended up going through the airport a lot, and in some of my earlier life's work ended up learning a lot about the old RMA. In my childhood, the Denver smog was simply awful. I woke up in the hotel with my eyes basically stuck shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantik Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 5:25 PM, JKK said: I actually have never known Denver that well, since we only went down there a couple of times. It was a main hub so I ended up going through the airport a lot, and in some of my earlier life's work ended up learning a lot about the old RMA. In my childhood, the Denver smog was simply awful. I woke up in the hotel with my eyes basically stuck shut. When in Denver, that smell is awful to people lol, i don't mind it so much. Haven't been out to see the old RMA in awhile, they hold mud volleyball tourneys by there but it's been a few years since i've been out there. The smog is still awful, Colorado has cracked down on emissions and the sort to try and curb it a little but, it'll take a lifetime to get rid of it! Our sunsets are crazy colors for that reason lol... Everyone who comes always says something about how beautiful the colors are but it's from smog, pollution lol.... When I was repairing arcade cabinets in my teens, the stuff that builds up out here is just awful, especially in the heart of Downtown Denver. Not much has changed in the outskirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) On 2/24/2022 at 4:49 PM, JKK said: Stick around here long enough, you will see some of the least intellectually capable people you could possibly imagine. Literally the story of my life every stinking day. My brain is rotting away noticeably being in this crummy state. I can hear it! Only here in Alabama can you see people wearing college hats and shirts who exhibit no sign of ever having set foot in a high school classroom, or ever having seen a barber or dentist, … or a comb or shampoo. Edited February 26, 2022 by VKurtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/26/2022 at 3:52 PM, VKurtB said: Literally the story of my life every stinking day. My brain is rotting away noticeably being in this crummy state. I can hear it! Only here in Alabama can you see people wearing college hats and shirts who exhibit no sign of ever having set foot in a high school classroom, or ever having seen a barber or dentist, … or a comb or shampoo. Well, I have to assume you have a reason for being there in spite of that, and I doubt that it is economic need. So I would assume that this reason governs, or you'd move back to Pennsylvania. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
