Planchet error? 1st coin sent in 1981 p Kennedy 0

[kellyt]

A few months into coins. Mainly walking liberties, but have gotten into Kennedy’s. I need 4 more to finish my 64 - 99 collection. In the process I’ve got a lot of Kennedy’s. Which got me into coin roll hunting. I’ve found a lot with errors. One of them looks to be a stock error or planchet error of some sort. It’s the first I sent in for grading. It should be in the mail there by now. I was wondering if anyone knows what kind of error it is? Price estimate if I sell? If you can tell the grade would be neat to guesstimate. It’s fun. Sorry for long thread but introducing myself as well. The nickel falls short of the copper which sticks out a tiny bit. The coin as a whole is a hair smaller in diameter to other healthy Kennedys. This is a 1981 p Kennedy half dollar. The letters are cut off where the nickel ends. The one pic of the rims is the error coin under a healthy Kennedy. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by kellyt
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[Mr.Bill347]

Kelly, welcome to the forum! I read where there were a number of 1981 Kennedy’s struck on quarter planchettes. Compare it to the quarter specs 

1981 D Washington Quarter Specifications

Circulation Strikes: 575,722,833  Proof Strikes:  0  Content: Cladding 75% Copper 25% Nickel, COre 100% Copper  Weight:  5.7 grams Diameter:  24.3 millimeters

[kellyt]

Thanks! It crossed my mind. I’ll have to weigh it. I bought a digital scale for measuring tea and for some reason it’s gone mad broke. It is very thin, the nickel part.  I guess if it was quarter it got pressed thin by die. It’s on both sides. Tks again for reply and the specs!

Edited September 6, 2021 by kellyt

[Mr.Bill347]

Have you seen it off yet? Handle with gloves, one sold on Heritage for over $800 😅

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:16 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Have you seen it off yet? Handle with gloves, one sold on Heritage for over $800 😅

Sweet! Tks. I sent it in. It should have gotten there Saturday. But may take a bit to actually open. I didn’t have it too long or bang it around. Mainly it got put in a jar with others then going back through I discovered it. I got some gloves from family and I’ve tried to remember to put them on. Tks for input, It’s haphazard and careless not too I’m realizing, and your advice is galvanizing the necessity of them for me. Some metal word play there :). 

[VKurtB]

Keep us informed on this one, Kelly. This might be an SBA dollar planchet rather than a quarter. Curious: how on earth did you describe it on the NGC form?

Edited September 6, 2021 by VKurtB

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Keep us informed on this one, Kelly. This might be an SBA dollar planchet rather than a quarter.

Will do! I’m learning new stuff so Tks for your post. I’ll have to look up the sba info. That’s a Susan B. Anthony right? 

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:16 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Have you seen it off yet? Handle with gloves, one sold on Heritage for over $800 😅

Tks again, I checked out heritage and registered. Interesting site. And just in case you didn’t see earlier I sent it off to ngc already.

[VKurtB]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:10 PM, kellyt said:

Will do! I’m learning new stuff so Tks for your post. I’ll have to look up the sba info. That’s a Susan B. Anthony right? 

Yes, and the reason I’m thinking SBA is because I have seen halves struck on a quarter planchet before and this one has more “stuff” remaining on it than those. 

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:14 PM, VKurtB said:

Yes, and the reason I’m thinking SBA is because I have seen halves struck on a quarter planchet before and this one has more “stuff” remaining on it than those. 

Okay Tks, I see what your saying. A quarter wouldn’t have squished out as close to the rim as an sba. This has more lettering remaining than a quarter squished would have. I suspect the sba is larger than a quarter but smaller than a Kennedy then. I was just looking them up and sba replaced the Eisenhower dollar by carter. And the P mint did some in 81. 

[VKurtB]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:29 PM, kellyt said:

Okay Tks, I see what your saying. A quarter wouldn’t have squished out as close to the rim as an sba. This has more lettering remaining than a quarter squished would have. I suspect the sba is larger than a quarter but smaller than a Kennedy then. I was just looking them up and sba replaced the Eisenhower dollar by carter. And the P mint did some in 81. 

Not as many as in ‘80, and nowhere near as many as in ‘79, but some, and that’s all you need. Actually, the fact that they struck them for collectors only in ‘81 could have encouraged a little carelessness with unused or “found” planchets, like under some machine.

Edited September 6, 2021 by VKurtB

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:56 PM, VKurtB said:

Not as many as in ‘80, and nowhere near as many as in ‘79, but some, and that’s all you need. Actually, the fact that they struck them for collectors only in ‘81 could have encouraged a little carelessness with unused or “found” planchets, like under some machine.

Tks for the info, I looked it up for the sba print number at the p mint in 1981 after you posted this. From the page I got, which showed a chart, it said 3 million in 81 and made for sets. Like you stated there were more productive years. Which makes the odds of it happening in 81 at P more interesting. Tks for the posting again. 

[Just Bob]

Welcome to the forum.

My guess is that the coin was removed from a bezel or encasement of some kind, and will not receive a grade, but I hope I am wrong.

Good luck with your submission.

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:18 PM, Just Bob said:

Welcome to the forum.

My guess is that the coin was removed from a bezel or encasement of some kind, and will not receive a grade, but I hope I am wrong.

Good luck with your submission.

Me too! I’ll have to look up what that means. Tks for posting. I’m looking stuff up as I get input too. Yeah it would be sad not to get a rating. Maybe they’ll not charge me then 😂😂

[Just Bob]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:20 PM, kellyt said:

I’ll have to look up what that means. 

So you will know what I mean, here are some pictures I pulled from the web. Pictures of an encased Kennedy half, and a Barber in a bezel :

 

[kellyt]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:18 PM, Just Bob said:

Welcome to the forum.

My guess is that the coin was removed from a bezel or encasement of some kind, and will not receive a grade, but I hope I am wrong.

Good luck with your submission.

Tks again, I didn’t see much on net about that bezel/encasement removal damage. I’ll keep looking. I’m guessing you’re saying it’s broken off where it got caught and stripped off some of the nickel edge? If so I’m not sure about that but could be it. The nickel is thin as if it was small and pressed outward. If it got caught or was severed by an encasement of some kind the nickel throughout would be regular thickness at best wouldn’t it? What is bazel or encasement damage?

Edited September 6, 2021 by kellyt
Explaining it out more, typos

[GBrad]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:27 PM, kellyt said:

The nickel is thin as if it was small and pressed outward. If it got caught or was severed by an encasement of some kind the nickel throughout would be regular thickness at best wouldn’t it?

Welcome to the forum @kellyt.  If the coin was encased, in this instance meaning pressed and placed inside a surrounding metallic object which would turn it into a token, I don't believe the edge of the inserted coin would expand or 'thin' the metal.  My assumption would be just the opposite in that, if anything, the reeding on the edge of the coin would suffer noticeable damage as it is forcefully placed into its surrounding object. This doesn't seem to be the case with your coin best I can tell from your last picture of the edge of your coin, compared to the other Half, where the reeding on your coin looks to be ok.

On 9/5/2021 at 11:27 PM, kellyt said:

What is bazel or encasement damage?

As I theorized above regarding encasement damage, I believe the opposite would hold true for a coin being placed into a bezel.  A bezel would be a ring of sorts as shown by @Just Bob in his nice pics of the Barber he posted earlier.  I this instance, yes.... there could possibly be a noticeable amount of damage in the form of a flattened/ thinned outer perimeter of the coin as the bezel ring is 'squeezed' tightly around the coin in order to hold it securely to be used as a trinket, necklace, etc.... 

I definitely think your coin was worthy of sending in to be analyzed by NGC. We don't say or recommend this very much around here solely for the fact that we simply don't want forum members to waste their money for something we truly know they don't have.  I too hope it comes back slabbed as a mint error.  Please keep us all informed.  Very interesting coin you have here!

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by GBrad
mistake

[kellyt]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:13 PM, GBrad said:

Welcome to the forum @kellyt.  If the coin was encased, in this instance meaning pressed and placed inside a surrounding metallic object which would turn it into a token, I don't believe the edge of the inserted coin would expand or 'thin' the metal.  My assumption would be just the opposite in that, if anything, the reeding on the edge of the coin would suffer noticeable damage as it is forcefully placed into its surrounding object. This doesn't seem to be the case with your coin best I can tell from your last picture of the edge of your coin, compared to the other Half, where the reeding on your coin looks to be ok.

As I theorized above regarding encasement damage, I believe the opposite would hold true for a coin being placed into a bezel.  A bezel would be a ring of sorts as shown by @Just Bob in his nice pics of the Barber he posted earlier.  I this instance, yes.... there could possibly be a noticeable amount of damage in the form of a flattened/ thinned outer perimeter of the coin as the bezel ring is 'squeezed' tightly around the coin in order to hold it securely to be used as a trinket, necklace, etc....  

I definitely think your coin was worthy of sending in to be analyzed by NGC. We don't say or recommend this very much around here solely for the fact that we simply don't want forum members to waste their money.  I too hope it comes back slabbed as a mint error.  Please keep us all informed.  Very interesting coin you have here!

 

Thanks for the post and welcome! Yeah there is something going on with it. Hopefully the issue will get discovered. Its fun figuring it out! I appreciate the info and help. Now I know what a bezel is and encasements and what damage they can cause! The coin is flattened from the center out. The Nickel part and not just on edges, however the edge of the nickel is missing or stops. So it could have been cut off in a number of ways. Stripped at end of the copper like rubber off a wire? I'll keep ya'll informed, it'll be neat to see, maybe it has multiple issues HAHA!  

[RWB]

Just watching. 

[VKurtB]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:23 PM, kellyt said:

Thanks for the post and welcome! Yeah there is something going on with it. Hopefully the issue will get discovered. Its fun figuring it out! I appreciate the info and help. Now I know what a bezel is and encasements and what damage they can cause! The coin is flattened from the center out. The Nickel part and not just on edges, however the edge of the nickel is missing or stops. So it could have been cut off in a number of ways. Stripped at end of the copper like rubber off a wire? I'll keep ya'll informed, it'll be neat to see, maybe it has multiple issues HAHA!  

I wish we had a weight before this was sent off. Wrong planchets will often be revealed by being the right weight for something else. This might be a removed coin from a “lucky coin collar” as suggested above. Weight would have provided some important evidence. 

[kellyt]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:27 PM, VKurtB said:

I wish we had a weight before this was sent off. Wrong planchets will often be revealed by being the right weight for something else. This might be a removed coin from a “lucky coin collar” as suggested above. Weight would have provided some important evidence. 

Tks! I weighed it but the scale was acting up. Not that it was weighing the coin wrong but everything I put on it was wrong and like ounces off or like 30 grams was 400 grams. It never weighed anything correctly or even close to correctly when testing it with known weight. It never did that before. I’m going to get a non digital scale if I can find a good gram one. Wish I’d got closer pictures of the core too. 

[kellyt]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:27 PM, VKurtB said:

I wish we had a weight before this was sent off. Wrong planchets will often be revealed by being the right weight for something else. This might be a removed coin from a “lucky coin collar” as suggested above. Weight would have provided some important evidence. 

Posting a blown up screenshot. The copper edge sticks out a hair. The nickel could be cut off but still falls short of copper edge. A bit smashed down onto core. Also, the coin as a whole in diameter is smaller than a healthy one. Including the protruding core. Wish I had it in hand to weigh it and double check the diameter. Make sure it wasn’t its own core I saw sticking out when against the normal 77. But the pic of the rims placed together does show the larger Kennedy’s shadow slight overcast. So I’m leaning I’m correct about it being smaller in diameter. If a bezel cut it, then it may be smaller, but the copper edge sprockets are still there. Not trying to see things but explain a bit more detail. It’s plausible a bezel cut it, but it would have damaged the copper more maybe? Instead it’s like it stops right at the copper. Unless the bezel had room for it a bit. Or whatever the possible casement was. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by kellyt

[VKurtB]

After seeing the two edge on, I’m back to liking the SBA planchet theory. But so hard to be certain. Good mystery. 

[kellyt]

On 9/6/2021 at 9:00 PM, VKurtB said:

After seeing the two edge on, I’m back to liking the SBA planchet theory. But so hard to be certain. Good mystery. 

True that! Mystery for sure! 

[kellyt]

It made it past the status of received, scheduled for grading, and this week it has been in the grading phase. I’m hoping it’s an actual error and not post damage. It looks similar to the 1979 wrong Planchet coin so maybe it is. 
 

i edited out the ID number but this is the status… 

Edited October 21, 2021 by kellyt

[Mohawk]

Thanks for the update, Kelly!!!

Good luck and keep us in the loop!

 

[GBrad]

Good luck @kellyt.  Looking forward to hear what comes of your coin. 

[GBrad]

 

On 9/6/2021 at 10:00 PM, VKurtB said:

After seeing the two edge on, I’m back to liking the SBA planchet theory

One other comment here if you don't mind.  I really hope @VKurtB's presumption was correct in regards to the SBA planchet theory.  Maybe this will get him off my back concerning the price of precious metals....... (totally different post, totally different topic....)       

[kellyt]

I hope he is right as well. And I hope the price of silver goes up, but not before I can get some more ounces! 

[Conder101]

Looks like a typical not fully struck piece with the rim not fully formed leaving "bevels"