Beautifying & Protecting Older Lincoln Cents, Possibly VersaCare? 0

[GBrad]

Question: I visit some other forums on occasion just to see what's going on in other collector's lives but I still consider NGC as my home.  I've noticed one in-particular individual on another site (I'll refrain from using their name here) that has found umpteen beautiful coins, mostly Lincoln Copper varieties, and the guy has excellent photography skills and a great setup.  His coins are predominantly LWC's and they are all found in the wild for the most part it appears from what I've seen.  However, he HAS to be putting something on his coins that give them a brilliant appearance and a slight sheen....making them look extremely better in appearance than when he first found them I'm sure.  Anyone know what this may be and would be a good product to preserve Copper?  I haven't asked this guy because I don't really want to participate there and would have to set up an account to do so.  I'm thinking maybe it's VersaCare? I've never used VersaCare before, only used extra virgin olive oil to remove gunk on some Lincolns and I'm not sure about leaving it on one permanently, but even the olive oil makes an old Linc. come back to life. It does work well for removing buildup that a pure acetone bath doesn't work.  Especially while using olive oil with a very soft and pointed piece of wood like a toothpick or better yet a rose bush thorn (thanks to James Z. for that advice)  Any input?  Thanks!

Edited August 19, 2021 by GBrad

[Mr.Bill347]

Ok you guys are making me feel bad about my Red/brown 1909 vdb!

I bought this one from Mac Vanderstein so I hope it’s not been whizzed.

[GBrad]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:25 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Ok you guys are making me feel bad about my Red/brown 1909 vdb!

I bought this one from Mac Vanderstein so I hope it’s not been whizzed.

No Bill.... I think your 1909 is very nice! I wish I had it!!  I don't think it's been whizzed.  Just went back and looked at your coin on J.P's thread. The fields look too good with a very slight grainy/undulating texture and appearance which wouldn't be indicative of a polished or whizzed coin (I don't think).  The color looks good too, not shiny best I can tell, and what looks like a few carbon spots I would think would not be there either.  Not an expert here but just my take.  

[Coinbuf]

 

On 8/19/2021 at 11:47 AM, GBrad said:

Question: I visit some other forums on occasion just to see what's going on in other collector's lives but I still consider NGC as my home.  I've noticed one in-particular individual on another site (I'll refrain from using their name here) that has found umpteen beautiful coins, mostly Lincoln Copper varieties, and the guy has excellent photography skills and a great setup.  His coins are predominantly LWC's and they are all found in the wild for the most part it appears from what I've seen.  However, he HAS to be putting something on his coins that give them a brilliant appearance and a slight sheen....making them look extremely better in appearance than when he first found them I'm sure.  Anyone know what this may be and would be a good product to preserve Copper?  I haven't asked this guy because I don't really want to participate there and would have to set up an account to do so.  I'm thinking maybe it's VersaCare? I've never used VersaCare before, only used extra virgin olive oil to remove gunk on some Lincolns and I'm not sure about leaving it on one permanently, but even the olive oil makes an old Linc. come back to life. It does work well for removing buildup that a pure acetone bath doesn't work.  Especially while using olive oil with a very soft and pointed piece of wood like a toothpick or better yet a rose bush thorn (thanks to James Z. for that advice)  Any input?  Thanks!

Without seeing a photo it's rather difficult to say.   There was a time when some collectors would use lacquer or varnish to protect copper coins with some success, those usually have a different sheen or look to them.   I would not recommend leaving them in any type of oil for long term storage, over time the oil will either become rancid or dry up.   I do remember hearing about a guy that received some coins in a tin of gun oil, no idea how that turned out.

[GBrad]

On 8/19/2021 at 5:47 PM, Coinbuf said:

 I do remember hearing about a guy that received some coins in a tin of gun oil, no idea how that turned out.

Thanks Coinbuf. I actually have a bunch of bottles of exact military grade  and spec gun oil I purchased awhile ago. Still in the small green bottles intended for field use for our Troops. It’s not what is referred to as “cosmoline” which most all new firearms come coated in to person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point rust and repel water even though I believe that particular compound does have copper ingredients and/or properties which you can actually see the minuscule copper particles of in the mixture which act as a lubricant. I think I’m going to start doing some experiments for myself to test out some things like in this topic. Obviously, I wouldn’t use any coin of value. I think it would be interesting to do some legit testing, over an extended period of time, and if for nothing else, to satisfy my curiosities. Thanks. 

[RWB]

On 8/19/2021 at 6:01 PM, GBrad said:

“cosmoline”

Cosmoline is a heavy weight petrolatum used as a protective coating for guns and metals.

Copper and bronze coins have long been coated with similar products. The purest do nothing more olive oil (just don't use cosmoline on your Salad Ready to Eat). But complete removal sometimes strips thin copper oxide which ruins the coin.

 

The OP's friend might have brilliant coins with s slight sheen - but they are worthless to a coin collector.

[GBrad]

On 8/19/2021 at 7:19 PM, RWB said:

Cosmoline is a heavy weight petrolatum used as a protective coating for guns and metals.

Copper and bronze coins have long been coated with similar products. The purest do nothing more olive oil (just don't use cosmoline on your Salad Ready to Eat). But complete removal sometimes strips thin copper oxide which ruins the coin.

 

The OP's friend might have brilliant coins with s slight sheen - but they are worthless to a coin collector.

Hey RWB. Thank you for the reply. Good info on cosmoline and I knew it had some type of lubricating properties but would never use it on a coin. Definitely don’t use it on any salads either!!😁

I don’t have any friends of such that have any coins preserved in anything. Heck…. I don’t have many friends at all for the most part…  I was referring to, in my original opening post, that I had seen some pics of other collectors coins that looked to have a very clean look to them even though their Lincs are relatively old coins .  I was really inquiring about VersaCare and if anyone has had any experience with this product or any other products at all. I’ve seen it discussed numerous times in posts elsewhere but was curious about this product.  Or basically I take that nothing should be applied long term to a copper coin. Understood if so. Thanks.  

 

[Jason Abshier]

Lately I been working on my German copper coins they come in all shades I must say , for 150+ year old coins they seemed to hold up well just have to accept copper is copper try not to alter it I wouldn’t put oils on copper like WD40 or motor oils , not even baby oil it may turn corrosive over long period of time on copper but I don’t know but what I do know if you try clean it , it turns pink I’ve seen my fair share of pink coins for sale such an eye sore .. I’ve got 4 copper German grand duchy Baden 1 kreuzers on way from Germany . I like them just the way they are 

[Mohawk]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:11 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I like them just the way they are 

I do too, Jason!! Those are all beauties 

[Jason Abshier]

@GBrad theres this stuff from JAX If you’re just gonna experiment see how it turns out ? Give this a shot otherwise I wouldn’t put this on copper collectible coin . If you’re putting together set of Raw Lincoln cents circulated-AU condition I don’t see the harm . JAX also sells a “darkener” that can darken copper to a darker tone .
 

****I’ve never used this stuff so to anyone using it or going to use it ?USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK**** I don’t recommend messing around with old copper coins as it took some of them hundreds of years to form that patina on surface of copper in which how they were stored over the years so we can obtain them for our collections today  

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/19/2021 at 11:01 PM, Mohawk said:

I do too, Jason!! Those are all beauties 

@Mohawkas soon as I get them in mail I’ll take some photos and post them on here in world coin section … to compare the photos . So far I haven’t been disappointed in the coins I’m getting from German dealers over seas they find some nice old copper coins… however the Deutsche post office DHL , takes forever sometimes to ship the US more like a month or so sometimes they ship within a week … these coins are going on 3rd week I’m still waiting 

[GBrad]

On 8/20/2021 at 5:15 AM, Jason Abshier said:

@GBrad theres this stuff from JAX If you’re just gonna experiment see how it turns out ? Give this a shot otherwise I wouldn’t put this on copper collectible coin . If you’re putting together set of Raw Lincoln cents circulated-AU condition I don’t see the harm . JAX also sells a “darkener” that can darken copper to a darker tone .
 

****I’ve never used this stuff so to anyone using it or going to use it ?USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK**** I don’t recommend messing around with old copper coins as it took some of them hundreds of years to form that patina on surface of copper in which how they were stored over the years so we can obtain them for our collections today  

Thanks Jason for the info.  I am an avid Lincoln collector and do not delve into the realm of older copper that you and some others are very interested in.  Maybe one day I will.  Pretty much everything I search through, and own, is circulated raw. I like Linc. varieties and sometimes there is just a need to spruce one up and make one look a little better as long as it's not a Major Variety. Obviously, Reds for the most part bring higher premiums in the Linc series regardless of the year, mint, condition, or whether or not it is a variety, etc.... A good Red Linc. I wouldn't see any need at all to mess with. Thanks again.  

[Jason Abshier]

@GBradive heard some guys that could turn a Lincoln cent back red , I don’t know how they do it , but I’ve seen enough red Lincoln cents and some Indian cents to be suspicious . I don’t even think coin conservation can even take a brown Lincoln cent back to red with out turning it pink first then letting it naturally turn back to an orange red or without adding humidity and heat ?… some of the copper coinage I’ve collected over the year (like the last photo I posted of 1864 german Baden 1 kreuzer to me it looks it may have been dipped one time long ago it’s naturally toning back) it’s orangish colored to me not your typical look of copper but again its just a photo I’ve seen photos make coin look awkward color but when I get it in my hand its more of light brown color … Purplish color on copper coins usually is some form of over cleaning or dipping perhaps ? . I’ve heard of people dipping copper in coin dip then boiling eggs smash them up and put boiled eggs on one side of container and the pink copper cent on other side cover the container with a lid in few hours the copper coin will start turning brownish … I’ve heard some strange methods over the years 

[GBrad]

On 8/20/2021 at 11:55 AM, Jason Abshier said:

@GBradive heard some guys that could turn a Lincoln cent back red , I don’t know how they do it , but I’ve seen enough red Lincoln cents and some Indian cents to be suspicious . I don’t even think coin conservation can even take a brown Lincoln cent back to red with out turning it pink first then letting it naturally turn back to an orange red or without adding humidity and heat ?… some of the copper coinage I’ve collected over the year (like the last photo I posted of 1864 german Baden 1 kreuzer to me it looks it may have been dipped one time long ago it’s naturally toning back) it’s orangish colored to me not your typical look of copper but again its just a photo I’ve seen photos make coin look awkward color but when I get it in my hand its more of light brown color … Purplish color on copper coins usually is some form of over cleaning or dipping perhaps ? . I’ve heard of people dipping copper in coin dip then boiling eggs smash them up and put boiled eggs on one side of container and the pink copper cent on other side cover the container with a lid in few hours the copper coin will start turning brownish … I’ve heard some strange methods over the years 

That would actually be pretty ingenious if there was a way to turn a brown back into a beautiful red without any signs of having been done so.... but then again,,,,, does that border on the lines of dishonesty?? I'm not sure... each to his own but I'm not sure if I see any harm in doing so but then again I have never tried.  It's not like you are counterfeiting anything, you'd just be reviving the color of the copper.....Hmmmm... But I have never heard of a true and valid way of doing this without it being fairly obvious and as long as aged coppers have been around you'd think someone would have ultimately come up with a way to do this.  

Edited August 20, 2021 by GBrad

[Jason Abshier]

@GBradeven coins that been red and slabbed for over 10+ years started turning brownish that’s why TPG doesn’t guarantee copper coinage anymore . When you look at a 1909 v.d.b and say geesh ! How heck it stay bright red ? Or Indian head cent looks pretty red ? How is that ? Storage methods back then isn’t even compared to storage methods we have today even with intercept shield technology copper coins been know to still tone … Although I’ve read silver tone faster than copper that somewhat I agree with … only time I’ve seen red natural cent were in original bank wrap rolls usually in middle they are red (that’s more modern coins 1930s and onward today) not a 150 year old coin 

[GBrad]

On 8/20/2021 at 12:49 PM, Jason Abshier said:

@GBradeven coins that been red and slabbed for over 10+ years started turning brownish that’s why TPG doesn’t guarantee copper coinage anymore . When you look at a 1909 v.d.b and say geesh ! How heck it stay bright red ? Or Indian head cent looks pretty red ? How is that ? Storage methods back then isn’t even compared to storage methods we have today even with intercept shield technology copper coins been know to still tone … Although I’ve read silver tone faster than copper that somewhat I agree with … only time I’ve seen red natural cent were in original bank wrap rolls usually in middle they are red (that’s more modern coins 1930s and onward today) not a 150 year old coin 

I agree about the 150+ year old coins and I'm not even collector of them (but I do enjoy looking at and learning about them) but I can't remember the last time I saw a copper that old that was still a brilliant red.  And yes, I have often wondered how even a Linc. such as a 1909 can still be a nice Red??? How in the world, even in a slabbed and purported "air tight" holder (which they didn't even have during that time period) can a 100+ year old copper Linc. still be blazing??? Copper just can't do that IMHO. 

[Mohawk]

On 8/20/2021 at 5:25 AM, Jason Abshier said:

… however the Deutsche post office DHL , takes forever sometimes to ship the US more like a month or so sometimes they ship within a week … these coins are going on 3rd week I’m still waiting 

Tell me about it!!! I've ordered my fair share of Faustinas from dealers in Germany and, man, does it take forever sometimes!!!  I've got one I'm waiting for now, actually.  I posted the dealer pics in the For the love of copper thread.