Strange Silver pattern Quarter 0

[Ratzie33]

I believe this is what the coin actually is: a promissory colonial token for a peg barrel of whiskey. The dots on the flagon denote pegs which are markers not to be crossed. These were barrels of ale drafted into communal cups with markers to tell what each person’s share of liquor was. There was a punishment for being greedy and intemperately drinking past your allotted portion, or peg mark. Violence often ensued if the liquid level crossed your peg marker. Hence the term to knock someone down a peg.

[Ratzie33]

I believe it is United States colonial because of the eagle on the reverse. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

And I also believe the thirteen petals on the circumference represent thirteen colonies. To make a coin with an uneven number of petals requires precise and odd dimensional sizing. Some petals would have to be smaller than others to accommodate a primary number. It would take extra effort to choose a thirteen sided coin to construct. It is an odd size that matched no die pairing if the time 24.2mm in diameter.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Hoghead515]

Its an interesting token for sure. Cool find. 

[Ratzie33]

I believe it may be a brasher coin because of the highly detailed monogram, unusual for sure and the flower petal motif hugging the top and bottom of the 25c. A favorite of Brasher’s as depicted on the Brasher doubloon. Not used on any colonial American coin then or since. And if you look closely at the monogram it looks like there is a secondary EB in the center of the motif outlined in half red half blue for reference of crossover.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

I wish I could have seen the engrailed monogram 248 years ago upon its birth. I’m sure it was irremediably stunning. The smaller secondary initial pair is highlighted by a yellow circle.
 

The lower right curl of the smaller E has a protruding bump and arc that matches the larger original initial suggestive of hand engraving: larger letter bump reference point visible at about seven O’ clock on the yellow circle just barely touching it.

The lower portion of the smaller letter E upward-curving arc line crosses the yellow circle and transforms into the larger B at about a 4 O’ clock reference point. The bottom-line of the smaller E also serves as the lower portion line of the bottom hump of the smaller B as it touches the yellow circle at 6 o’ clock then begins it’s ascent at a shallow upward angle creating the pointed middle of the bottom small-centered B bubble.

They seem married to one another in a pirate style priestly Latin letter motif. The upper line of the small-centered E terminates on the outer bubbled side of the top hump of the small-centered B pointing downward, completing the downward angle proportion of the small E line in the center of the yellow circle.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

It seems to mimic the shape of the original lettering suggesting reduction hand engraving on the French Grenvier reducing lathe.

[Just Bob]

I don't think your token is American. I think it is a French 25 centimes token. The cent symbol is a "C" with a "post" on the top and bottom. The centime symbol is a "C," often with a dot or dash under it. (Sometimes it is a Ces, or Cmes,) Your token matches the style of these French tokens:

 

[Ratzie33]

The first George Washington medal was French was it not? If you don’t mind can you show me a French coin with a scalloped edge and a heraldic eagle reverse? Brasher also made his own French coins at the Orleans mint...

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

Look at the shape of the 5, and 2. The size and shape of the C. They are entirely different. 

[Ratzie33]

The 2 is smoother and more elegant in its curvature and displays no upward tail.

[Ratzie33]

The 2 is smoother and more elegant in its curvature and displays no upward tail. The 5 has a large belly in it pointing to hand cutting. It also comes to a point at the end of the middle curve. Look at how round the numerals are in their texture as opposed to the flat machine stamped French coins. Look at the top of the five it is less razor curved and certainly appears to be hand cut sloping downward at an angle as opposed to standing at attention straight in the French coin.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

Now let’s look at the 2. No sharp cut into the lower level line. A more natural human intentioned belly, a fatter top curve, and the overall height and width of the numeral are much larger.

[Ratzie33]

Size and shape comparison: 

I took the French coin picture much closer to be as fair as possible. As you can see the possible Brasher coin numerals are much larger and closer together.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

The shape of the flowers have a curved diamond pattern touching the edge in the circle center, but as for the French coin they cone to points facing away from the center of the flower.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

Now let’s look at the 2. No sharp cut into the lower level line. A more natural human intentioned belly, a fatter top curve, and the overall height and width of the numeral are much larger. As the French coins were minted much later it is possible they copied this design fraternizing in a pub. There are many repeating patterns in coinage history between countries like the leaf wreath used on the early half vents was copied from early British coinage, and the lady liberty on the reverse of the 1783 Washington cents are eerily similar to the heroine  on the reverse of Early British pennies.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

Motifs are commonly usurped. For example the similarities of the leaf design, and the ribbon at the bottom of the wreath.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

Which in turn England most likely borrowed influence from Russia 

[Ratzie33]

Ephraim Brasher copied more than one French coin.

[Ratzie33]

[Ratzie33]

You can use the judgement of your own eye to correct my rudimentary drawing.

[Ratzie33]

Something kind of funny could be a die crack but also could go along with Brasher’s devious predilection for counterfeiting, appears as if the eagle is sticking its tongue out at, and actually urinating on the mug.

[Ratzie33]

I’m going to take another view on this for a second. Again suggesting it as a satyrical token coin. Tobacco was actually dried and spun into long rolls of rope resembling the one beneath the barrel during the cultivation process in Jamestown. Tobacco was prized in England.
The English could not grow tobacco in England because of intemperate conditions and so were forced to import it from America. Again just an opinion but why is there a roll underneath the barrel? Could be a large pressed tobacco roll, the eagle over the barrel representing abundance of the item, and the claws into the barrel suggesting ownership of product; Whilst the eagle urinated on the 8 ounce cup of tea suggesting: “ off we don’t need, and have what you want”

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ratzie33

[Ratzie33]

[Ratzie33]

How often do you look at the reverse of a coin? I mean even as collectors when we go through a roll of pennies many of us rarely look at the back, the obverse is what it’s all about. What if Brasher paraded a 25centimes coin obverse with a satyrical reverse.

[Ratzie33]

Looks like there are little lines of vapor emanating from the mug... could it have been tea?

[Ratzie33]

There are three abnormal s shaped curves beneath the right eagle wing feathers.

[Ratzie33]

Especially this one.

[MAULEMALL]

Quote

Could you please post a link to the video you are referring to? It’s not that I don’t trust you it’s just that judgement stems from a long line of misinformation about the human condition.

 

Sure..

 And what would be a good time for me to come over and do your laundry And clean your house and wash your back??

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

6 hours ago, Ratzie33 said:

Whilst the eagle urinated on the 8 ounce cup of tea

That's one of the best descriptions I've read in a while.....

.... and how do I beat this dang maze?

I'd stick with JB's line of thinking.

9 hours ago, Ratzie33 said:

show me a French coin with a scalloped edge

Not coins but here are some French Tokens, all with 13 scallops. Scalloped edges are common with early 20th century tokens.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Fenntucky Mike
Had to rearrange pics because of all the dead space on the right side of the page now.