Inherited coins 0

[JimL55]

I recently inherited these coins:

1910-1927 $10 gold Indian Eagles

Pre-1933 Swiss 20 Franc Helvetia

Candian Maple Leaf

1986 Liberty dollar

Kennedy half dollar

Thay are all in mint condition. 

How do I have them graded and is there a way to see I'd they're uncirculated?

Thanks

[JKK]

Sounds like an interesting batch of coins that would be of significant value, at least the gold. You should not only be considering level of circulation, but authentication. Might sound far-fetched, and there's a strong tendency to think Bampaw was the world's greatest numismatist and could not possibly be taken in by phonies, but it happens all the time. I helped a lady liquidate her dad's gold collection, and man, was she *spoon*ed off that her dad had gotten ripped off with two counterfeits. We only learned this when the auction house send them in for grading.

I do not know much about sending in coins for grading, but that would very likely confirm for you whether they were circulated/authentic. No offense, but new collectors are rarely good judges of whether a coin is authentic or has seen circulation--a fact you clearly recognize, which is to your credit. You could certainly photograph and post them here and get opinions. I don't know what a 1986 Liberty dollar is, but it's unlikely the Kennedy merits having graded.

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, first if a coin is considered to be mint state it will be uncirculated.   The easiest way to determine if what you have truly are mint state coins is to visit a local coin dealer and have him/her do an assessment.  Another possible way is if there are any local or large coin shows (most are currently still shut down right now) you could get several opinions in one location that way.  If you are able to take and post good in focus clear large photos of both sides of each coin here we can give you some preliminary idea of the grades.  If those options are not possible, or perhaps not options you wish to do for one reason or another, then you can open an account here at NGC and submit your coins directly for grading and encapsulation.  Should you choose that route go to the NGC home page and on the top banner you will see an option for submit, follow the directions, you can ask questions here or call customer service if you have any questions on the procedure.

Grading may not add much if any value to most of those coins you listed unless they grade at MS64 or better for the gold and higher for the Kennedy.

[Alex in PA.]

www.ngccoin.com can provide all the answers to your questions.

[JimL55]

Can you give me an idea of what they charge?

[JimL55]

30 minutes ago, Coinbuf said:

Welcome to the forum, first if a coin is considered to be mint state it will be uncirculated.   The easiest way to determine if what you have truly are mint state coins is to visit a local coin dealer and have him/her do an assessment.  Another possible way is if there are any local or large coin shows (most are currently still shut down right now) you could get several opinions in one location that way.  If you are able to take and post good in focus clear large photos of both sides of each coin here we can give you some preliminary idea of the grades.  If those options are not possible, or perhaps not options you wish to do for one reason or another, then you can open an account here at NGC and submit your coins directly for grading and encapsulation.  Should you choose that route go to the NGC home page and on the top banner you will see an option for submit, follow the directions, you can ask questions here or call customer service if you have any questions on the procedure.

Grading may not add much if any value to most of those coins you listed unless they grade at MS64 or better for the gold and higher for the Kennedy.

Could you tell me what MS64 is?

[JimL55]

33 minutes ago, JKK said:

Sounds like an interesting batch of coins that would be of significant value, at least the gold. You should not only be considering level of circulation, but authentication. Might sound far-fetched, and there's a strong tendency to think Bampaw was the world's greatest numismatist and could not possibly be taken in by phonies, but it happens all the time. I helped a lady liquidate her dad's gold collection, and man, was she *spoon*ed off that her dad had gotten ripped off with two counterfeits. We only learned this when the auction house send them in for grading.

I do not know much about sending in coins for grading, but that would very likely confirm for you whether they were circulated/authentic. No offense, but new collectors are rarely good judges of whether a coin is authentic or has seen circulation--a fact you clearly recognize, which is to your credit. You could certainly photograph and post them here and get opinions. I don't know what a 1986 Liberty dollar is, but it's unlikely the Kennedy merits having graded.

Could you tell me how I would post pics of the coins?

[Coinbuf]

Just now, JimL55 said:

Could you tell me what MS64 is?

Uncirculated coins are graded on a scale from MS60 (lowest) to MS70 (highest).  The difference between MS60 and MS70 are dramatic but in-between each grade the differences are small and not always easily reconized. 

[Henri Charriere]

33 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said:

www.ngccoin.com can provide all the answers to your questions.

[Except the overriding one (for me): Would it be bad form to request NGC relay a message from me to any one of the holders of top-graded French 20-franc gold roosters, stating, e.g.,   "Par-don, monsieur, but we have a member who is prepared to make you a very attractive offer for a 1902 French 20-franc gold rooster NGC-graded at MS-64 (pop. 1; none graded higher) presently believed to be in your possession?"]

[JKK]

5 minutes ago, JimL55 said:

Could you tell me how I would post pics of the coins?

I can't fully, because the way provided by the forum to post them directly has never one single time worked for me--not at the old forum, not here. I have to upload them to a hosting site and then add links. Hopefully someone can help. I look forward to seeing them.

What I can tell you is how to make sure the photos you take are likely to get you good answers: take clear photos of each piece, well cropped, both sides. If they are blurry, retake them until they are sharp. For the love of god do not post photos where the coin is tiny and the surrounding surface is 90% of the image; that's why you crop, so that the photo is all coin. You cannot imagine the garbage photography about which we patiently keep saying to people, "we can't tell from that pic" or "both sides, please." Every flipping day. Such a joy to see someone make a real effort to help us help them.

When you figure out how to post them--when someone for whom the forum works correctly steps up and guides you--make sure you post only one coin per thread, and post clear questions you wish answered. If that means you post fifteen threads, that is just fine and no one's going to wet their pants over it. That would be an order of magnitude better than posting ten coins in one thread, the problem there being keeping track of which coin one refers to.

[Henri Charriere]

Coinbuf is correct. The difference between a 60 and a 70 is dramatic, but imperceptible between, say, a 66+ and 67.  In my R series the former (of a random date) was adjudged to have a Fair Market Value of $650., while the latter commanded in excess of $1,300., exclusive of sales tax.

[JimL55]

25 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[Except the overriding one (for me): Would it be bad form to request NGC relay a message from me to any one of the holders of top-graded French 20-franc gold roosters, stating, e.g.,   "Par-don, monsieur, but we have a member who is prepared to make you a very attractive offer for a 1902 French 20-franc gold rooster NGC-graded at MS-64 (pop. 1; none graded higher) presently believed to be in your possession?"]

 

 They seem to be Helvetia but I haven't gone through all 300 of them

[JimL55]

[JimL55]

[JKK]

Nice photos. You definitely read the memo; the forum's going to enjoy your questions. Helvetia is Switzerland, in case you are not aware, so that's a SFr20 piece. Looks like it might well be an unc; similar for the 1914 eagle. Not seeing rub on the high points, but not sure about the small marks on the fields; we have some excellent gold enthusiasts here who might have helpful input.

[JimL55]

13 minutes ago, JKK said:

Nice photos. You definitely read the memo; the forum's going to enjoy your questions. Helvetia is Switzerland, in case you are not aware, so that's a SFr20 piece. Looks like it might well be an unc; similar for the 1914 eagle. Not seeing rub on the high points, but not sure about the small marks on the fields; we have some excellent gold enthusiasts here who might have helpful input.

Thanks I'm looking forward to learning more. I take unc means uncirculated. I'm not a coin enthusiast, just looking to get a fair price

[JKK]

Just now, JimL55 said:

Thanks I'm looking forward to learning more. I take unc means uncirculated. I'm not a coin enthusiast, just looking to get a fair price

Yes, that's what it means. If you want to sell them, and you have a lot of gold, you might want to contact an auction house. The advantage there is that the house will send them out for grading at their bulk rates, and will pick the grading company likeliest in their opinion to get good results. I've used Great Collections and found them pretty responsive.

[Coinbuf]

Glad you were able to figure out how to upload the photos, just a quick suggestion if you have two light sources (one at 10 o'clock the other at 2 o'clock) vs just the one and soften the light with a cloth diffuser the photos will be even better.  The Switzerland piece does look to be uncirculated (UNC) about MS63 I think and the $10 Indian I would grade as AU58; these are just my estimates from the photos and a grading company might grade them differently.  AU stands for about uncirculated and those grades run from AU50 (lowest) to AU58 (highest) and AU is the grade set just under UNC.  Because the price of gold is very high most gold coins; unless its a rare or difficult to find date (1914 is common); sell for the value of the gold content (known as melt value) which for a $10 gold eagle is roughly one half an ounce.  As I said before once the grade gets above MS64 then the numismatic value is higher than the gold value and those coins sell for more than the melt value.

[JimL55]

23 hours ago, JKK said:

Yes, that's what it means. If you want to sell them, and you have a lot of gold, you might want to contact an auction house. The advantage there is that the house will send them out for grading at their bulk rates, and will pick the grading company likeliest in their opinion to get good results. I've used Great Collections and found them pretty responsive.

I've been looking into Great Collections. How does the auction process work? What if someone wins with a low ball bid? Would I have to sell it for much less than it's worth?

[JKK]

19 minutes ago, JimL55 said:

I've been looking into Great Collections. How does the auction process work? What if someone wins with a low ball bid? Would I have to sell it for much less than it's worth?

There's a limit to how low the lowball bid will go because they will establish a starting bid. They aren't going to just sell your $10 gold piece for $50, in case you were worried about that.

The way it worked for me is that I first sent two houses a listing of all the coins and how I thought they might grade out. They both replied to me, but I preferred GC's response and decided they would be in my client's best interest. We bundled up the coins (you cannot imagine the level of packing involved on my part; you could have stabbed the box with a knife and not harmed a coin), along with the consignment paperwork, and sent them in. We had to pay a lot for shipping, but bear in mind we had like 130 gold and platinum coins worth about $150K. The vintage coins were not slabbed, so GC sent them for grading. A couple came back Not Genuine; of the others that didn't slab, GC sent them to the other major service. We got good results, and of those three sent to CAC we also received a bean for one (means it is in the upper tier of the stated grade). With that many coins, rather than flood the market, GC auctioned them over a period of about six weeks. Their payout equated to what my recordkeeping said it should, my client was overjoyed, and she enjoyed a nice payday (so did I).

Your ultimate outcome would depend heavily on how the coins graded. If most get details grades (as in AU details--cleaned) rather than full grades, don't expect as much money. The auction house has a vested interest in getting the best grading and auction outcome and part of what you're buying is their expertise in doing that. Your interests and theirs are aligned, up to a point.

You did not pose the question, but here's what would be wrong with selling them to a local dealer: Most local dealers have little reason to want them, nor to pay much of a premium. Gold sucks. People bringing it in tend to think that the dealers should smooch their patooties, and are shocked not to be paid even melt. Yet it doesn't move, and the dealers are lucky to get a little over melt selling it, which happens when someone comes in and says they want to buy gold and expect smooching of their patootie. Then they get mad because they say the price is a gouge. So on a well-circulated $20 gold piece, say (bullion value $1825 today), maybe the dealer paid $1780. Maybe it sells for $1880. The seller was mad because they didn't get melt. The buyer, Moneybags, is mad because they think it should be melt or even a little discount because Bringing A Big Sale. Much negativity for minimal gain. On top of that, for a large gold buy, the dealer is committing a lot of current capital--capital he knows will produce a poor rate of return. Now, this is not the way it works at all dealers, but it's what I saw every day when I worked for one.

[JimL55]

1 hour ago, JKK said:

There's a limit to how low the lowball bid will go because they will establish a starting bid. They aren't going to just sell your $10 gold piece for $50, in case you were worried about that.

The way it worked for me is that I first sent two houses a listing of all the coins and how I thought they might grade out. They both replied to me, but I preferred GC's response and decided they would be in my client's best interest. We bundled up the coins (you cannot imagine the level of packing involved on my part; you could have stabbed the box with a knife and not harmed a coin), along with the consignment paperwork, and sent them in. We had to pay a lot for shipping, but bear in mind we had like 130 gold and platinum coins worth about $150K. The vintage coins were not slabbed, so GC sent them for grading. A couple came back Not Genuine; of the others that didn't slab, GC sent them to the other major service. We got good results, and of those three sent to CAC we also received a bean for one (means it is in the upper tier of the stated grade). With that many coins, rather than flood the market, GC auctioned them over a period of about six weeks. Their payout equated to what my recordkeeping said it should, my client was overjoyed, and she enjoyed a nice payday (so did I).

Your ultimate outcome would depend heavily on how the coins graded. If most get details grades (as in AU details--cleaned) rather than full grades, don't expect as much money. The auction house has a vested interest in getting the best grading and auction outcome and part of what you're buying is their expertise in doing that. Your interests and theirs are aligned, up to a point.

You did not pose the question, but here's what would be wrong with selling them to a local dealer: Most local dealers have little reason to want them, nor to pay much of a premium. Gold sucks. People bringing it in tend to think that the dealers should smooch their patooties, and are shocked not to be paid even melt. Yet it doesn't move, and the dealers are lucky to get a little over melt selling it, which happens when someone comes in and says they want to buy gold and expect smooching of their patootie. Then they get mad because they say the price is a gouge. So on a well-circulated $20 gold piece, say (bullion value $1825 today), maybe the dealer paid $1780. Maybe it sells for $1880. The seller was mad because they didn't get melt. The buyer, Moneybags, is mad because they think it should be melt or even a little discount because Bringing A Big Sale. Much negativity for minimal gain. On top of that, for a large gold buy, the dealer is committing a lot of current capital--capital he knows will produce a poor rate of return. Now, this is not the way it works at all dealers, but it's what I saw every day when I worked for one.

I've been trying to get a valuation of my $10 Indian Gold Eagles using the NGC price guide and it looks like the auction prices realized are quite a bit lower than the price guide. Maybe it would be better for me to have them graded myself and try to sell them on eBay where I have some control of prices. GC will not let you start the bidding price more than 80% of valuation

[JKK]

14 minutes ago, JimL55 said:

I've been trying to get a valuation of my $10 Indian Gold Eagles using the NGC price guide and it looks like the auction prices realized are quite a bit lower than the price guide. Maybe it would be better for me to have them graded myself and try to sell them on eBay where I have some control of prices. GC will not let you start the bidding price more than 80% of valuation

I doubt you will get the NGC price guide prices for anything, no matter how you go about it. I certainly didn't. I got about 70% of those on average, as I recollect.

[Conder101]

4 hours ago, JimL55 said:

I've been trying to get a valuation of my $10 Indian Gold Eagles using the NGC price guide and it looks like the auction prices realized are quite a bit lower than the price guide

Remember gold goes up and down, sometimes significantly, so you would also need to know what the gold prices were at the time of the auction sale.  If it was significantly lower than today then the auction sale price could also be lower.

[JimL55]

18 hours ago, JKK said:

There's a limit to how low the lowball bid will go because they will establish a starting bid. They aren't going to just sell your $10 gold piece for $50, in case you were worried about that.

The way it worked for me is that I first sent two houses a listing of all the coins and how I thought they might grade out. They both replied to me, but I preferred GC's response and decided they would be in my client's best interest. We bundled up the coins (you cannot imagine the level of packing involved on my part; you could have stabbed the box with a knife and not harmed a coin), along with the consignment paperwork, and sent them in. We had to pay a lot for shipping, but bear in mind we had like 130 gold and platinum coins worth about $150K. The vintage coins were not slabbed, so GC sent them for grading. A couple came back Not Genuine; of the others that didn't slab, GC sent them to the other major service. We got good results, and of those three sent to CAC we also received a bean for one (means it is in the upper tier of the stated grade). With that many coins, rather than flood the market, GC auctioned them over a period of about six weeks. Their payout equated to what my recordkeeping said it should, my client was overjoyed, and she enjoyed a nice payday (so did I).

Your ultimate outcome would depend heavily on how the coins graded. If most get details grades (as in AU details--cleaned) rather than full grades, don't expect as much money. The auction house has a vested interest in getting the best grading and auction outcome and part of what you're buying is their expertise in doing that. Your interests and theirs are aligned, up to a point.

You did not pose the question, but here's what would be wrong with selling them to a local dealer: Most local dealers have little reason to want them, nor to pay much of a premium. Gold sucks. People bringing it in tend to think that the dealers should smooch their patooties, and are shocked not to be paid even melt. Yet it doesn't move, and the dealers are lucky to get a little over melt selling it, which happens when someone comes in and says they want to buy gold and expect smooching of their patootie. Then they get mad because they say the price is a gouge. So on a well-circulated $20 gold piece, say (bullion value $1825 today), maybe the dealer paid $1780. Maybe it sells for $1880. The seller was mad because they didn't get melt. The buyer, Moneybags, is mad because they think it should be melt or even a little discount because Bringing A Big Sale. Much negativity for minimal gain. On top of that, for a large gold buy, the dealer is committing a lot of current capital--capital he knows will produce a poor rate of return. Now, this is not the way it works at all dealers, but it's what I saw every day when I worked for one.

Just heard from Heritage Auction and they said that with the exception of the Indian gold Eagles, all the other coins are just worth their melt value so what's the point of paying to have them graded and auctioned? Is there another way of just getting melt value without going through the process? What do you know about Goldline International?

[JKK]

2 minutes ago, JimL55 said:

Just heard from Heritage Auction and they said that with the exception of the Indian gold Eagles, all the other coins are just worth their melt value so what's the point of paying to have them graded and auctioned? Is there another way of just getting melt value without going through the process? What do you know about Goldline International?

If you just want close to melt (you are not going to get full melt, I do not think), take them to your local bullion dealer.

Thing is, unless I read your post incorrectly, "all the other coins" total four, two gold and two not gold. I agree about the other four, though the Swiss coin might at least have potential. I think the bottom line there is some houses just would rather not mess with small consignments, which by the big houses' lights would include yours, which is how many $10 gold pieces? 18? I'm guessing you did not send them pics of each and every eagle, so assuming they won't grade higher seems a stretch (although I grant that it is one of the more probable outcomes).

[RWB]

Could some less-harsh photos of the Eagles be posted? From the posted photos, I do not like the looks of any of the coins....but better photos would help.

[JimL55]

3 hours ago, JKK said:

If you just want close to melt (you are not going to get full melt, I do not think), take them to your local bullion dealer.

Thing is, unless I read your post incorrectly, "all the other coins" total four, two gold and two not gold. I agree about the other four, though the Swiss coin might at least have potential. I think the bottom line there is some houses just would rather not mess with small consignments, which by the big houses' lights would include yours, which is how many $10 gold pieces? 18? I'm guessing you did not send them pics of each and every eagle, so assuming they won't grade higher seems a stretch (although I grant that it is one of the more probable outcomes).

I have 25 gold Eagles, 300 Swiss francs, 15 Maple leafs, 186 silver Liberty dollars and 1000 Silver Kennedy halfs

[JimL55]

3 hours ago, RWB said:

Could some less-harsh photos of the Eagles be posted? From the posted photos, I do not like the looks of any of the coins....but better photos would help.

It's pretty hard getting good photos with my phone but I'll try

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:02 PM, Coinbuf said:

....once the grade gets above MS64 then the numismatic value is higher than the gold value and those coins sell for more than the melt value.

[There are those who would caution against making such broad, blanket statements, grade being but one of several factors that come into play in making a numismatic determination, but you've introduced an interesting yardstick nevertheless. 

[Coinbuf]

24 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[There are those who would caution against making such broad, blanket statements, grade being but one of several factors that come into play in making a numismatic determination, but you've introduced an interesting yardstick nevertheless. 

And there are those that would caution about taking a quote out of context, in my full post I said "unless its a rare or difficult to find date (1914 is common)".  Obviously rare dates/mm coins are different and sell for different amounts than common date/mm coins.  Context matters and when you just pull one sentence out of a post the context is lost.