Early Copper - 1st Time Buyer - Corrosion, Coloring, Etc. 1 1

[Joe G.]

I've been studying early copper Half Cents and Cents with interest to add an example to my collection.  The beauty of the early coppers and the interesting history of our first US mint have made these coins of great interest to me for many years now.  I'm leaning towards a Liberty Cap in VF to XF grade.  I'm writing today as I see damage on some of these early coppers that I'm not used to with the newer coins I've previously collected.

There is an attractive example of the 1794 "Fallen 4" (Sheldon 63) on eBay that I also found Heritage Auction history on as follows (I like the misaligned date):

eBay listing:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1794-S-63-R-2-PCGS-XF-40-Fallen-4-Liberty-Cap-Large-Cent-Coin-1c/282872091427?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Heritage listing:  https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cents/1794-1c-head-of-1794-s-63-b-37-r2-xf40-pcgs-pcgs-35651-/a/1271-3188.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

The Heritage description mentions "minor reverse corrosion".  Would this be the pitting found at ~8:30, 10:00, and noon?  Did the coin leave the mint with this pitting or is this damage from perhaps being buried for a time?  I'd expect corrosion of copper to be green, not a pit.  Maybe the corrosion reference and the pitting I'm looking at are two different things?

 

Here is another coin I was bidding on but dropped out just last week, this time a 1795 Half Cent (I like the "I" as opposed to "1").

Heritage:  https://coins.ha.com/itm/half-cents/1795-1-2-c-lettered-edge-c-1-b-1-r2-vf35-ngc/a/1321-3510.s?ic2=mybidspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyBids-101116

I thought this a good looking coin, but didn't like the green corrosion on reverse.  Heritage called it "active corrosion" which I assume means it is still corroding?

Last but not least, I've heard that many old coppers were previously "re-colored".  Is it easy to tell if a coin has been colored?  Would the cents linked to hear be possible re-colors?

Thank you for any responses here as I come up to speed and get closer to a first purchase.

 

 

 

[Coinbuf]

Early copper is a tough area to collect as many of these were cleaned and recolored as that was an acceptable practice to many collectors in the 18th century.  You might find it useful to find a dealer that specializes in this area to help you find a quality coin considering the amount of money you are looking to spend.  As to your questions the pitting on the first coin likely was caused by some form of corrosion, which might have been the result of spending time in the ground or as simple as PVC.  The early minting process was crude and the planchets were not always as smooth and uniform as they are today so its also possible that some of those pits may have been there at the time of coining, I cannot tell either way.

I would never consider the second coin with the active corrosion, that will need to be conserved or it will continue to eat away at the coin.  Already the surfaces under that green gunk are most likely damaged and its very unfortunate that the coin received a straight grade.  Maybe NGC would conserve it under their guarantee but that is something that I would consult with NGC on before I ever consider bidding on.

Recoloring is something that usually can be seen well after the job was done as the surfaces change over time.  This is something that you have to study and see enough examples of so that when you see it you know it.  

This is the earliest copper piece that I own, I think this is a good piece that has not been badly molested; or at least not that I can tell.  Its a raw coin that is in my 7070 album and I doubt that it would straight grade due to the rim hits and is a perfect album coin in my mind.

 

[MarkFeld]

You chose a challenging type of coin to obtain in problem-free condition. I’d advise patience and caution.

I’d stay away from the two linked coins, due to the issues that you mentioned. 

Many copper coins have been recolored, a number of them, deceivingly so.

The surfaces of the 1804 Half Cent posted by Coinbuf look uncommonly wholesome.

[Henri Charriere]

10 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

Early copper is a tough area to collect as many of these were cleaned and recolored as that was an acceptable practice to many collectors in the 18th century.  You might find it useful to find a dealer that specializes in this area to help you find a quality coin considering the amount of money you are looking to spend.  As to your questions the pitting on the first coin likely was caused by some form of corrosion, which might have been the result of spending time in the ground or as simple as PVC.  The early minting process was crude and the planchets were not always as smooth and uniform as they are today so its also possible that some of those pits may have been there at the time of coining, I cannot tell either way.

I would never consider the second coin with the active corrosion, that will need to be conserved or it will continue to eat away at the coin.  Already the surfaces under that green gunk are most likely damaged and its very unfortunate that the coin received a straight grade.  Maybe NGC would conserve it under their guarantee but that is something that I would consult with NGC on before I ever consider bidding on.

Recoloring is something that usually can be seen well after the job was done as the surfaces change over time.  This is something that you have to study and see enough examples of so that when you see it you know it.  

This is the earliest copper piece that I own, I think this is a good piece that has not been badly molested; or at least not that I can tell.  Its a raw coin that is in my 7070 album and I doubt that it would straight grade due to the rim hits and is a perfect album coin in my mind.

 

]Would you, or anyone else, happen to know why there is a marked difference in the wear pattern on the reverse, i.e., N-NW vs. E-SE?]

[zadok]

....most likely due to uneven or weak striking on that area of the planchet as opposed to wear...perhaps one of the early copper collectors can provide more information on this particular die pairing...

[Joe G.]

Many thanks for the responses.  I'm far more familiar with the old baseball cards and on a whole there is far less value with cards that have been altered.  I suspect the early coins are a bit different but would still rather an unaltered example.  It makes it difficult when the 3rd party authenticators provide straight grade on many early coppers that have been altered.  I'd also like to pick up a silver and gold coin from 18th century (pre-1800), maybe these are a little easier to find unaltered, then again maybe not.

 

I'll continue to study the many options that appear on eBay, Heritage, and the many other auction houses.  These early coins are gorgeous, I'm in no hurry, will keep studying my options until I feel comfortable pulling the trigger.  Thank you.

[Bignubnumismatics]

I would look into joining the EAC (Early American Coppers). This should help with meeting specialized dealers and collectors who can help you. Large cents, especially those minted during the war of 1812, were struck on terrible planchets that were far from perfect because the copper was bought from GB. A decent, unmarked large cent is hard to find. A dealer I would recommend is Chris McCawley. His website, earlycents.com, is extremely nice and has plenty of problem-free examples to choose from.