EdG_Ohio Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) I recently purchased a 1877 Trade dollar that I simply liked and not because of any particular value. When I took images to look more closely at it the marks of course were more noticeable. You can clearly see marks of some sort on the coin surface and some on raised portion but not as noticeable. Some of the "scraps" appear just after a raised surface but nothing really stands out along letter and eagle edging. The question: How can a person decide between bag marks or someone getting a little too excited using their pocket knife ? This is for informational purposes only and not for the value of this particular coin. Thanks. Edited November 26, 2020 by EdG_Ohio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted November 26, 2020 Author Share Posted November 26, 2020 A larger version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bsshog40 Posted November 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) Your trade dollar has been harshly cleaned. Really noticeable on the second picture. I would return it if you are able to. Edited November 26, 2020 by bsshog40 Modwriter, ldhair and RWB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted November 27, 2020 Author Share Posted November 27, 2020 Thanks but not what I was looking for. In order for newer people to learn, like myself, they need to know the who's and why's. I train individuals on a heavy truck assembly line, in order for them to understand their operation/station they also must understand those that follow thereafter and prior. Without having all the information laid before them a blanket stated like "I would return it if you are able to." does not help them in understanding and learn from the lesson/instructions. I would like to expand on the idea of what "bag marks", circulated. unc, harshly cleaned and the like are. These are new terms for many of us and it's easy to forget the general language used regarding a particular subject. People see it daily on this board and others, and yes I'm sure it's frustrating and will be repeated untold amounts but this is part of the reason some of us come here. I really didn't do this for my benefit but perhaps maybe open others eyes to items to look for in a coin....and frankly, I still like the coin which is what it's all about...correct ? Have a great weekend and thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhair Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Harshly cleaned is correct. Someone used something to scrub the heck out of the coin. There is no way to know what they used. That's impossible. Note the many straight scratch lines on the coin and the lack of any luster. Sure sign the coin was harshly cleaned. The coin is also covered with heavy hits. Not what I would call bag marks. The hits came from poor handling and again it's impossible to know what hit the coin. If you like the coin, enjoy it. Modwriter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 ...ur question probably has no answer that is up to ur expectations...what u r asking is akin to walking thru a parking lot n wanting to know the causes of dents, scratches, scrapes etc on the cars fenders...post minting marks on coins r normally caused by either use or abuse, use is normal wear from day to day circulation n appears as very uniform n unobtrusive generally speaking, abuse can come from almost anything n can be moderate to excessive but would be obtrusive to the eye...to generalize just a portion of ur question, bag marks usually appear as random marks that r indicative of coins hitting each other n r normally small n short in length...harsh manual cleaning as on ur trade dollar usually displays long repetitive often parallel scratches from abrasive powders or pads etc, other abuses often appear as dents, scrapes, scratches from contact with other items harder than the coin n most likely r longer in nature rather than just incidental contact marks...specifically to ur reference to knife cuts or graffiti cuts, usually these would exhibit deeper furrows n raised ridges where the metal was moved similar to a plow going thru dirt...there is no concise or totally comprehensive answer to ur question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsshog40 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, EdG_Ohio said: Thanks but not what I was looking for. In order for newer people to learn, like myself, they need to know the who's and why's. I train individuals on a heavy truck assembly line, in order for them to understand their operation/station they also must understand those that follow thereafter and prior. Without having all the information laid before them a blanket stated like "I would return it if you are able to." does not help them in understanding and learn from the lesson/instructions. I would like to expand on the idea of what "bag marks", circulated. unc, harshly cleaned and the like are. These are new terms for many of us and it's easy to forget the general language used regarding a particular subject. People see it daily on this board and others, and yes I'm sure it's frustrating and will be repeated untold amounts but this is part of the reason some of us come here. I really didn't do this for my benefit but perhaps maybe open others eyes to items to look for in a coin....and frankly, I still like the coin which is what it's all about...correct ? Have a great weekend and thanks. Your question was The question: How can a person decide between bag marks or someone getting a little too excited using their pocket knife ? Well I didn't see either on your coin. I seen very harsh cleaning. I don't know who cleaned the coin you bought. I don't know what they used to clean the coin you want. I know that most newbies that buy coins, proud of what they bought as you did state above, to only find out that the coin is damaged or cleaned, that it can be upsetting. That's why I advised to try to return the coin. The following two words below were the only terms I used. I provided the proper definitions of them for you. Harsh: : having a coarse uneven surface that is rough or unpleasant to the touch Cleaning: make something of free of dirt, marks, or mess, especially by washing, wiping, or brushing Edited to add: I really just bypassed the bag marks and pocket knife remarks after I seen the harsh cleaning. Edited November 27, 2020 by bsshog40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) EdG_Ohio ---- Maybe this illustration will help. At left is your coin; at right is an uncirculated 1876-S coin. Red arrows on your coin point to damage caused by contact with other coins (bag marks) or during circulation. It's impossible to tell what caused any of these marks. Red arrows on the coin at right point to marks from contact with other coins - much like those on your coin, but less severe. The size, location and quantity of bag marks will vary from coin to coin. Yellow arrows on your coin point to abrasion that occurred after the coin was put into circulation. This kind of fine "sanding" is not normal circulation wear, but was intentionally done for unknown reasons. This might have been done with steel wool, sandpaper, emery cloth, pencil eraser - almost anything with a hard, coarse surface. The coin at right, since it is uncirculated, has none of these abrasive marks. Does this help answer your questions? Edited November 27, 2020 by RWB Fix formatting - as usual Modwriter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 EdG_Ohio -- The manufacture of coins follows a production process analogous to the truck production line where you train workers. Truck components might get slight damage, or a ding, here and there; maybe a paint dribble - these are like bag marks on a new coin. But just like a new truck, once the coin gets out of the factory anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_OldeTowne Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 "Bagmarks" is generally a misnomer. Coins thrust into bags do collect marks from each other (hence the term), but such marks can be completely indistinguishable from a coin coming into contact with any number of comparable objects... such as a pocket knife, pebble, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modwriter Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I had a quarter returned to me that had roll marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
