New security features plus an increase demand for gold 0

[World Colonial]

5 hours ago, Zebo said:

It's all in the timing. 

Exactly

Relative value is always changing but the difference in the last 10+ years is that due to unprecedented reckless speculation and overvaluation in every major asset class from the greatest mania in the history of civilization, practically everyone is forced to either participate in a financial casino or financially bleed to death from NIRP, ZIRP and currency debasement.

[Zebo]

2 hours ago, World Colonial said:

No, sometime around 2005.  And it isn't cheap either.  I have four or five of the wallets which cost about $400.  Bought it directly from the company.

I have the full set (six), minus the ringer - it wasn't around then. I have yet to use them. They go side by side with my 1800s sovereign scale and weights. 

 

[Zebo]

On October 14, 2020 at 11:42 AM, World Colonial said:

My inference also.  I have not read up on it but it's my understanding that modern counterfeits use tungsten to fool the Fisch wallets which is why they came out with the "ringer".  Different sound for different metals apparently.  I still intend to buy this "ringer" but have not got around to it.

High metal prices bring out more and better criminals.  Not aware it's a problem for silver yet but it could or will be if the dreams of the metal bugs ever come true.

This brings up an interesting question. How prevalent is using Tungsten as a substitute for gold (has a similar density and weight) in counterfeiting? It is much harder to use (much higher melt point) but it could be done. I have not heard of any counterfeits using Tungsten, but I also haven't been looking for any information on it. 

The ringer is a substitute for the old drop and listen coin test. It's a neat idea, however.

I've had a couple of counterfeits that were extremely well made. They used the same or slightly higher gold content on a very rare date. Both fooled two seasoned dealers. I was fooled by The first one, but was pretty convinced that the second was a counterfeit (98% sure) but wanted it anyhow to use as an excellent example. Others that I have seen had added or removed mint marks, alters dates or the like - not to mention the obvious ones using base metals as a substitute.

Has anyone seen a Tungsten counterfeit?

 

[World Colonial]

21 minutes ago, Zebo said:

I've had a couple of counterfeits that were extremely well made. They used the same or slightly higher gold content on a very rare date. Both fooled two seasoned dealers. I was fooled by The first one, but was pretty convinced that the second was a counterfeit (98% sure) but wanted it anyhow to use as an excellent example. Others that I have seen had added or removed mint marks, alters dates or the like - not to mention the obvious ones using base metals as a substitute.

 

Two different motives here.

Since tungsten is a much cheaper metal, counterfeiters are motivated to fake a broader range of gold coins, primarily bullion NCLT such as the subject coin of this thread.

With high premium numismatic gold, seems it's much easier to use gold or alter a genuine coin per your examples.  I'm not saying a modern counterfeit of this type can't use a different metal, only that it seems it is less likely to occur.

[Zebo]

32 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

Two different motives here.

Since tungsten is a much cheaper metal, counterfeiters are motivated to fake a broader range of gold coins, primarily bullion NCLT such as the subject coin of this thread.

With high premium numismatic gold, seems it's much easier to use gold or alter a genuine coin per your examples.  I'm not saying a modern counterfeit of this type can't use a different metal, only that it seems it is less likely to occur.

I understand all that, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen a Tungsten counterfeit. I believe they are out there, but have never ran across one or heard anyone discussing it. I'd love to play around with a nice example of one. As for the ringer - I might just pick one up to complete the set.

[VKurtB]

My wedding ring is primarily tungsten. It has a very gold-like “heft”. My previous one was titanium. I’m into odd non-traditional metals.

[Zebo]

10 hours ago, VKurtB said:

My wedding ring is primarily tungsten. It has a very gold-like “heft”. My previous one was titanium. I’m into odd non-traditional metals.

You can definitely hear the difference in between gold and tungsten when struck (or dropped). 

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/20/2020 at 9:52 PM, VKurtB said:

My wedding ring is primarily tungsten. It has a very gold-like “heft”. My previous one was titanium. I’m into odd non-traditional metals.

If what you say is true, osmium ought to be right up your alley but impractical for everyday wear.  Way to heavy.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Quintus Arrius
Wrong word choice