1857 Flying Eagle cent oddity? 0

[larne737]

I have a 1857 Flying Eagle cent that seems to be thicker than normal but I don't have any to compare it to. The diameter is 19mm which is normal, but the thickness is 3mm which is thicker than a silver dollar, it seem completely out of portion. It also appears to have three layers and the reverse side seem not to be aligned with the obverse but 30 degrees off. Is this normal, a mint error or a fake?

[Just Bob]

Welcome to the forum.

If you could post clear, close-up pictures of both sides (right side up, please) and the edge, it might be helpful in determining what you have.

[larne737]

Thanks Just Bob,

Sorry for the quality and color it the best this amateur can do. The third photo is self explanatory the 1857 Flying Eagle is in the middle to compare to the stack of 2 and 1 Lincoln pennies. The only things I can figure is it's a mint error with 3 blanks or has a secret spy compartment but the evenness of the edges are perfect aligned but the layers don't want to separate. 

 

[kbbpll]

Well that's odd. I don't think it wasn't minted like that - how could it fit in the press? It's like a magician's coin or snuff box, but I've never seen one like it. Does it unscrew? I suppose you could weigh it and if it's a lot lighter than 3 coins you'd know there's a hollow space in there. If you don't mind possibly hurting the "coins" I suppose you could soak it in Liquid Wrench or something and see if it comes apart (it may be sealed with corrosion).

[Just Bob]

Interesting. Looks like someone put three cents together, either by gluing them, or machining one or more to fit together. Not a mint error, in my opinion, but kind of cool, nonetheless.

[larne737]

Thanks for all your suggestions, I weighed it and it was about .008 of an oz. lighter. It would not twist apart but I was able to very carefully pry it apart. The outside diameter of the coin was the standard 19mm, it has a well machine cavity 13.5mm in diameter and 2.5mm deep total between both halves, a little less than two dime's thickness. The obverse side is the female  2mm thick and it has a 1.25mm cavity in its half. The reverse side had a inset male shoulder with a total height of 2mm with the coin's outer diameter lip 1.25mm thick, its cavity was 13.5mm wide and 1.25mm deep. It has a small folded old paper inside. The coin was a family heirloom I inherited, probable came from great-great grandfather who was a high-end male hat merchant in Philadelphia who collected coins and signatures. The machining is very precise, even, clean and professional. The coin has been in my immediate family for at least 71 years and no one in the family was a machinist. What was interesting, the coin was in an old slide type holder that had be stapled shut but pried open and showed evidence of being looked at many times but the damage to the holder. None of the other coins showed that same intrusion, so the coin must had raised a lot of questions. After finding the cavity last night I might have vague recollections of knowing that as a child. Regarding what it might be is still the question. It is to hard and small to get apart to be for medicine or a magician trick, any message would have to be very small. 

[kbbpll]

Very cool. Was anyone in your family a spy?

[Just Bob]

I agree. Very cool.

[Kirt]

That is awesome. With the coin's date...messages across lines during Civil War? Probably worth having someone take a look at it. However, who to take it to I'm at a loss.

[larne737]

I have been searching the internet and can find nothing on a coin that small. I sent an email to the mint to see if they any history of making one for the war effort since this coin probably came from my great-great grandfather in Philadelphia. I might sent it in for grading anyway with my other coins. It probably was made from three flying eagle coins. 

[Kirt]

I would not send it in for grading without talking to the TPG first. You may be dealing with something much more unusual than an altered FEC. If you want to go down that path, I would encourage you to contact them directly, tell them what you have and refer them to this thread. They may be very interested in seeing it in hand -- or maybe they'll refer you to an antiquarian.

[larne737]

Kirt, what is the TPG? this level of coin collecting is new to me.

[Thompson2]

That's really cool.  I'll be following this thread to see what the outcome is.

 

Ramsay stack maybe?  although it looks like the edges of the 3 are well aligned in this case?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Thompson2

[Conder101]

This looks like something they might use for a machinists test to go from apprentice to journeyman or journeyman to master.  Make a press fit box coin from two cents. That would take some skill.  Tolerances would have to be pretty precise..

[Kirt]

On 6/6/2020 at 7:38 PM, larne737 said:

Kirt, what is the TPG? this level of coin collecting is new to me.

Third Party Grader - e.g. NGC and their competition. They do a great job with coins, but this really isn't a coin...anymore. Just sending it in without having a conversation first would probably be disappointing.

[DWLange]

That's a really cool alteration and very collectible, but NGC would reject it as an altered coin. Ditto for PCGS, and you'd have to check with the others.

[Just Bob]

I can make out the "G" on the paper, but what is the other smaller bit of writing?

[larne737]

Just Bob,

I never saw the two "G" but you are right on, thanks. The great-great grandfather we are confident the coin came from, was Augustus I. Guth. He very well could have been called Gus Guth. I flatten the paper the best I could but the smaller image could be anything. He had a men's hat store in Philadelphia. 

[EarlyUS.com]

I wonder if it ever had a (tiny) photo (or two) enclosed within it?