Grading basics 0

[Kevine84]

Can someone tell me what to read so I can understand why this is worth face value?

I got the statement from a dealer with no further qualification.  

I want to understand. I thought the condition alone was valuable. 

Thank you for the patience.

 

 

 

[kbbpll]

It was probably a polite way of telling you that it isn't worth their time. Condition alone doesn't make a coin valuable. They made 96 million of these. Low uncirculated 1954-S would barely get $2-3 for them.

[Kevine84]

Thank you

I see a lot for sale for more. Im sure it will make sense eventually

[Just Bob]

Coins are graded according to their condition, using the Sheldon Scale, which is numbered from 1 to 70. Circulated coins are graded using the numbers 1 through 59, and 60 through 70 are used for uncirculated coins. Obviously, the higher the grade, the more valuable the coin. A coin as common as a '54-S would have to grade MS66 or higher to be of much value. Although grading from pictures is iffy at best, even with really good shots, your coin does not look like it would grade higher than MS63 or maybe MS64, in my opinion.

As far as seeing coins for sale for more, they could be in better condition, or it might be a case of wishful thinking on the part of the seller. There are a lot of highly over priced coins for sale on sites like Ebay and Etsy. The question, as far as value and worth are concerned, is whether the coins are actually selling, and what buyers are actually paying.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Just Bob

[JKK]

Here's the thing. That's a nice 1954-S, which in MS-60 brown shows up in Coin World (which tends to be high) for a quarter. At MS-65 red--a very uncommon grade--it lists for $8 in the same reference. If it is that rarefied coin that graded higher, it would be worth more. But for that to happen, it's got to be in a grading slab.

It would cost what, $30 to have a grading company look it over, certify that it is genuine and undamaged and uncleaned, and issue it a grade. MS-62 red/brown might be realistic there. Oh, and you pay up front for the grading. Came back cleaned, MS details? You still paid. Came back MS-63 red/brown? Mag shows it as fifty cents, so you spent $30+ to make sure that the monetary value was indeed half a buck.

Now, for your own fun collecting purposes, that $30 might be well worth it. It's your money and how you spend it is up to you. Myself, I can think of better deployments for $30, but that's just me. Yesterday I bought a couple of very nice Byzantine coins for about that much each, from reputable dealers who gave me good deals. They invested a little time in estimating the value of coins worth $30 (in fact, they were delighted to discuss them). Dealers however are in business to make money, so they simply won't spend time on a coin like the one you posted because they know it's very unlikely it's worth more than a quarter, and even if they only pay you face for it, the flip they put it in is worth several cents--likely more than the coin, for which someone might pay them a quarter. It's not that they mind making fifteen cents; it's that those fifteen cents merit zero of their energy or effort from a profit motive standpoint. This dealer simply told you so in few words.

In the ideal world, every dealer would approach every such situation as a teachable moment and spend time explaining those economics. If the dealer actually does that, a certain percentage of people will take it as a negative, that he is a greedy *person_of_paternal_uncertainty*. He's dealt with that. Plus, a lot of dealers are more or less socially challenged, or become that way. So he just tells you how it is, blunt and clear, and avoids the possibility that you might be one of the ones who actually punishes him for candor.

Take my word that if you'd walked in with a 1909-S VDB penny, the dealer would have given it a much closer look, because the same magazine lists even heavily worn examples in three figures, and an example in the condition of your 54-S would be in the low four figures easy. You'd send that in for grading every time.

[Kevine84]

Thank you very much. I can appreciate that. And it gives me good perspective. 

I certainly appreciate not wasting anyone's.

I know there are a lot of highly collectable coins.

I was interested in the grade because i have a multiplier.  I have around 200 coins that are a 10+% +/- that sondition in wheat and 400ish not wheat for the same years. 

I was wondering if that mattered. 

I also have 60lbs of foreign coins including Annam from the 1780's. 

 

[JKK]

For the US coins, you need a current Red Book, readily available. Or you could look them up for free on Numismedia. The rare issues will jump out with higher prices, and you'll see the prices increase as you go back in time, especially before 1934. After 1934, they usually have to be rare issues or in the 99th percentile of uncirculated status to be worth much more than the copper value. After 1958, that's even more so. We spend tedious hour after hour here trying to explain to hopeful change-checkers that their coins are not rare, and some of them even believe us.

With regard to that coin's condition and those similar to it, what you may not realize is that grades at the uncirculated levels experience seismic shifts from tiny scratches, marks, spots, and so forth. For example, the grading standard for MS-65 is like unto MS-67 (virtually flawless with minor imperfections), but with a small blemish, uneven toning, a few barely noticeable nicks or marks. Our idea of a barely noticeable nick and yours may vary quite a bit. Grading based upon the blowup photo is not fair, though, because coins are graded with the naked eye up to MS-68. What looks to you like MS-65 might look to us anywhere between 62 and 67. It took most of us years to develop that understanding, so if it does not come to you instantly, well, we get that. We appreciate the blowup photo, of course (and would not make any effort had you not provided one; while most coins are not graded with magnification (their authenticity and surface alteration or lack thereof definitely have loupes as fair game), but it makes flaws really pop. We understand that, and so should you.

While there's an online world coin price guide at NGC, assume that its values are highly inflated. Demand for world coins is so much less, at least in the States, that coins with relatively low mintages can easily cost less than $10. Last week I sold a four-pack of late 1800s Afghan silver rupees in nice condition, each probably having about $5 in melt value, and got about $21 for the four. And that was with competitive bidding. Why? Because not a lot of people collect them. I collect foreign coins and would be fascinated by an Annamese 1700s piece, but only about four people in our coin club would care about it including me. Reality? Most of the foreign stuff that is part silver is worth its silver value, and most of the rest of the post-1920 foreign stuff is worth a nickel apiece at a dealer, selling for 15-25 cents in the assortment can. Get back into the 1800s and values for some go up somewhat, but more so with higher condition because the older it is, the fewer really nice ones survive.

And yet I just paid $450 for an 1832 Spanish doubloon (melt $287 right at this moment). Consider that. In about EF-AU condition, a gold coin with a name to conjure with, even nice toning, definitely authentic, and the dealer had to have paid not that much more than melt (depending on timing) to sell it to me for that. He didn't do it as a favor. The takeaway there is that even with such a coin, the retail premium over melt was less than half of selling price. Scale that down to the commonest modern aluminum or Al-brass/Al-bronzes of the 1900s, and you begin to see why they might be cool, but are not worth much. Those that remain monetized are worth at least face, at least in that country. One can always look up exchange rates, bearing in mind the likelihood of ever traveling there, because to spend them at face value you'd have to be someplace that takes them. A Swiss franc is worth about a dollar...in Switzerland or in forex trading. Not at 7-11, where they would probably figure you were a counterfeiter and call the cops (deep international numismatic awareness not being a typical stop-and-rob cashier's training). When the cops came, if you tried the argument that one Swiss franc is worth about a dollar, you can guess at the answer. "Not here it's not. Don't try this again, see?"

That said, post any world coins you want looked at, one per thread. Or others, of course. But especially world coins. Why? Because I like them.

[kbbpll]

Your image of the blue boxes tells the story. Thousands of collectors have boxes of red wheat cents just like this. Supply far exceeds demand. As JKK says, you need to get into >=MS65 to have any real value for most year/mint beyond the 1930s.

I recently purchased 1942 and 1942-D red UNC cents and paid about $5 for them. I know I was paying too much, but I was researching a very specific die feature and $5 was worth it to me to have them in hand for examination. So if you're selling online, you never know who might want to pay a little more for something, but a dealer won't. Of course there are many varieties too that someone might want, but that would take an enormous amount of research on your part to be able to identify them.

[Kevine84]

thanks for feedback

 

I may as well see I can spot some errors 

ill post some questions about the world coins

there are some beeauties

[VKurtB]

After you get some experience and some formal grading training, your eye will begin to see what makes a potential MS66 or MS67 coin. There may even be some in your stash pictured in the stack of pictures. Here's the tough part: with pictures only, it's nearly impossible to tell the "nice" from the "great". It really is at that point a "I've got to see it in the hand" sort of thing. Even the best "pickers" get it wrong a fair bit. I'm doing much better at picking out the "cream of the crop" in the last few years than I did even ten years ago, and I'm 64! I still miss on some. I also get MS67's most of the time when I think I have them.

Edited November 4, 2019 by VKurtB