Modern folks are going bonkers.........

[truthteller]

on the PCGS forums. Seems PCGS has severely tightened the high grades.

 

 

 

Note to PCGS: Moderns will be the bread and butter once all classic coins are graded MS69.

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[midwest]

linky

[HaydenTubbs]

Are your coins any more or less appealing because the letters on a tab in a plastic tomb isn't what you wanted it to be?

 

It's a shame that these days buyers only read the label...

[cladking]

If these were going into a collection then it might not be so big a problem. These were mostly intended for resale so if they truly are undergraded then the price will be severely affected.

 

How would someone feel if their peace dollars came back a grade or two lower than they expected when they were going to be sold. This would be especially painful on a very large submission. Due to the nature of the modern markets, there can be little choice but to resubmit them or forego selling at this time.

[cladking]

This is not going to kill the modern market. If anything it just might draw more attention to it. One thing you can bet on and that is that people are not going to stop collecting these coins just because the grading standards may seem to change. It also is not going to affect the grades of any coins or their availability in top condition.

[goose3]

How would someone feel if their peace dollars came back a grade or two lower than they expected when they were going to be sold. This would be especially painful on a very large submission. Due to the nature of the modern markets, there can be little choice but to resubmit them or forego selling at this time.

 

Big difference Clad....people don't spend Peace Dollars anymore.....at least the sane ones.

[gmarguli]

So let me see if I understand this. Some guy submits 120 coins to PCGS - a service that has a horrible consistency level - and he and other people are surprised when the coins don't grade the same way the previous submissions did? I think I've heard this story before.

 

PCGS will only get the message and grade properly if enough people stop submitting.

 

Best move I ever made was to no long submit to PCGS. Too many problems playing the PCGS grading guessing game. There is so much less aggravation using other services and I can still say that after getting HAMMERED on my last submission to NGC...which ran closer to $10,000 in grading fees.

[chinook]

which ran closer to $10,000 in grading fees.

[DonHeath]

which ran closer to $10,000 in grading fees.

 

Man, I'm glad this is just sport for me. I've stayed out of the fray across the street because I haven't submitted enough coins lately to have a good opinion, but I hate to see anyone get hammered whether its their eye or a changing standard. I've got a few invoices in to PCGS and NGC right now, but they're small. I find myself sticking more nice moderns in the safe in airtites. I figure they're like savings bonds. 10-15 years down the road when there are fewer sets to search, maybe I'll drag them back out. How wrong can you be investing a few bucks in a raw dcam of 50-70 vintage. Its very early in the game.

[gmarguli]

which ran closer to $10,000 in grading fees.

 

It's a cost of doing business.

 

 

 

I find myself sticking more nice moderns in the safe in airtites. I figure they're like savings bonds. 10-15 years down the road when there are fewer sets to search, maybe I'll drag them back out. How wrong can you be investing a few bucks in a raw dcam of 50-70 vintage. Its very early in the game.

 

Are you sure it's a good idea to put these coins away? Who knows what the market will be like in a year or two.

 

15 years ago everyone wanted the highest grade coin and paid top dollar for it. There was no real desire for CAM/DCAM. Then everyone wanted CAM/DCAM and didn't care as much about the grade. Who knows what they will want next year. Perhaps they'll only want coins with "Full Split Tail Feathers" or "Full Ear Hole" or some other moronic designation one of the grading services comes up with.

 

And even if there are less sets to search, there will be more of these coins graded. As people find more of these coins and have them graded, their value continues to go down. There are just so many collectors for these coins, so you're basically betting that the number of collectors will rise more than the number of coins found. That's a risky bet. Or you're betting that your coins will be top pop. Even more risky.

 

Might be best to sell the coins and take the profit and put that away instead.

[jom]

15 years ago everyone wanted the highest grade coin and paid top dollar for it. There was no real desire for CAM/DCAM. Then everyone wanted CAM/DCAM and didn't care as much about the grade. Who knows what they will want next year. Perhaps they'll only want coins with "Full Split Tail Feathers" or "Full Ear Hole" or some other moronic designation one of the grading services comes up with.

 

Come on! Let's come up with another moronic designation so it can go the way of the do-do bird just like FB Rooseys did.

 

Might be best to sell the coins and take the profit and put that away instead.

 

Thou shalt listen to Greg Almighty! Finding yourself some nice "key dates" and hang on to them seems to be a better way to go, IMO. Or just buy a mutual fund...as long as it doesn't invest in coins.

 

jom

[DonHeath]

Full Ear Hole" or some other moronic designation one of the grading services comes up with.

 

I have no doubt you're right.

 

you're basically betting that the number of collectors will rise more than the number of coins found.

 

Yeah, I think thats right, but its speculation on my part. The pops in the area I like haven't exactly exploded in the last three years. There have been only a few coins added to the top SMS slots in the past four years (since I started chasing them), and several of those were my submissions. I've been lucky, and maybe there aren't that many people looking. Who knows. I figure its probably not a bad idea to be the one who finds them. Trying to predict what will be hot in 10 years is just guesswork, but I believe these guys will still be in favor.

 

I carried a nice 65 half I found two years ago with me to the ANA in Pittsburg last year wrestling with whether or not to holder it. It was a nice coin, and I showed it to a few friends. I knew if I holdered it, I'd be inclined to sell it, so I didn't. I finally bit the bullet in Nov, and NGC graded it MS68 Cam. Of course, I then sold it, being the prostitute I am. They sure are hard to come by raw, and I've looked pretty hard for a few years. I guess I've satisfied myself there just aren't tons of supergems waiting to be submitted. There are still some nice coins, but there isn't much cream. I'm pretty content laying a few coins aside, but hey, thats not based on any market insight, just my own personal experience. I'm pretty happy owning them, and always hate selling them, so I guess what the TPG's do this week or next doesn't bother me as much as some, and in all honesty, the TPGs have always been fair to my submissions. I tend to see a few coins I believe are overgraded, and a few undergraded, but all are coins I could argue either way, and its just my personal grading opinion.

 

Edited, I hate threads with no pics.

 

 

BTW - NGC, thanks for the prompt service on my last invoice, and I'm glad you liked my 67 Washington as MS68 Cameo. It's part of my core set. Strong coin. One lint mark hidden in the wing, but essentially as struck.

[cladking]

 

 

 

Are you sure it's a good idea to put these coins away? Who knows what the market will be like in a year or two.

 

15 years ago everyone wanted the highest grade coin and paid top dollar for it. There was no real desire for CAM/DCAM. Then everyone wanted CAM/DCAM and didn't care as much about the grade. Who knows what they will want next year. Perhaps they'll only want coins with "Full Split Tail Feathers" or "Full Ear Hole" or some other moronic designation one of the grading services comes up with.

 

And even if there are less sets to search, there will be more of these coins graded. As people find more of these coins and have them graded, their value continues to go down. There are just so many collectors for these coins, so you're basically betting that the number of collectors will rise more than the number of coins found. That's a risky bet. Or you're betting that your coins will be top pop. Even more risky.

 

Might be best to sell the coins and take the profit and put that away instead.

 

There are certain to be changes in the hobby over the years and one of the certainties is that more high grade moderns will be graded. There are some that are so common that the only thing holding the pops back is the lack of demand which could make it profitable. Sure the pop-tops are profitable and these are getting graded but the second tier coins in many cases are not.

 

It's also a safe bet that collectors' tastes will change and the direction of this can only be guessed at. But, it's a virtual certainty that collectors will always value quality and rarity over anything else. If you set aside a coin with a 100% strike it will have whatever feature collectors desire in the future. By the same token, a coin that is among the finest today will be among the finest in ten years or ten decades.

 

The true risk of setting coins aside is the lost opportunity costs. If one sets aside a $100 coin for which he paid little over face then he may lose the value of his effort and the time increase in his money, but there is little danger to his wealth.

 

When the last of the available mint sets have been checked and "consumed" there will be very few more moderns in any condition being graded. Yes, the numbers will be there because of second and third tier coins already set aside and varieties which will continue to arise in circulation and from other sources but the finest and second finest coins coming from sets will be mostly a thing of the past. The rate at which a series is slabbed is far more dependent on the numbers of collectors for it and the values than on other factors. If the entire world started collecting memorial Lincolns than damaged VG's would pour into the graders from circulation.

 

The biggest risk of setting aside nice moderns is that we're all wrong. That the United States is a third rate country whose best days are behind it and it's just a long slide down into history. That people will never be interested in the past because they're too wrapped up in themselves or digging enough grubs to survive.

 

Many of these coins have populations which don't exceed 1000. Some are far lower. Some varieties haven't been graded at all or even reported.

 

Some of us are betting these numbers WILL go far higher and with a little study we're betting we know what's worthy of being saved today.