Gold dollars not welcome in New Orleans, 1858-59

[RWB]

In 1858-1859 gold dollars were not welcome in New Orleans. The full-weight, legal tender pieces conflicted with locally issued private $1 banknotes and the banks gave preference to their own paper currency. The coins were also time consuming to count. with double eagles being preferred for settlements and Customhouse payments.

 

The following excerpt is from a letter by mint director Snowden recommending that no gold dollars be sent to New Orleans.This was in response to a letter from the Assistant US Treasurer of New Orleans, A. J. Guirot.

 

January 11, 1859

 

The discrediting of this [gold dollar] coin by the banks is one of the faults of our [present] banking system. Whenever small notes are issued or circulated, the efforts of the banks are directed against the circulation of such of the coins of the United States as conflict with their notes. And I am sorry to say that government officers are very much disposed to avoid the labor of counting small coins, and hence to encourage the use of the double eagle only because it suits their personal convenience best.

 

At New York both these causes have led to the accumulation of a large amount of gold dollars in the Assistant Treasury.

[DWLange]

The gold dollar was an ill-conceived entry in our coinage system from the get-go. It flourished during the years 1850-53 when silver coins had been driven from circulation by the falling price of gold, but it served little purpose after that period. Gold dollars disappeared from circulation after 1861 when driven into hiding by non-redeemable paper money. By the 1880s gold dollars were simply items of speculation for collectors and platforms for jewelry manufacture.

[Mohawk]

Hello,

I know that this isn't a US coin, but the Ottoman Empire ( my main collecting specialty) had a coin that was extremely similar to the gold dollar, the gold 25 Kurush or 1/4 Lira. It was a tiny little gold coin 15mm in diameter and it was worth a little more than a US dollar (The exchange rate was 5 US Dollars per Ottoman Lira) that made its debut in 1855, and it was one of the most hated coins in the entire Ottoman monetary system. No one wanted to have them or use them aside from jewelers, who found them very convenient for making jewelry from. But unlike the US, the Ottomans just didn't give up on this thing, making them until the very end of the empire in 1922! I find it very interesting that a similar coin met a similar reaction in two very different societies. I guess tiny little gold coins were scorned the world over!

 

~Tom

[RWB]

Excellent observation about similarities of human behavior in very different cultures and economic situations. Can you post a photo of a 25 Kurush?

 

[Tom's post is what "numismatics" is really about!]

[BillJones]

I guess that explains why the New Orleans Mint didn't make any more gold dollars after 1855.

[johnny9434]

thats interesting to know

[RWB]

I guess that explains why the New Orleans Mint didn't make any more gold dollars after 1855.

 

Not enough evidence to confirm a cause-and-effect relationship, but the premise is certainly plausible. (Might be a future research project.)

[Mohawk]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the reply! I found the similar reactions in the Ottoman Empire and the US very interesting myself. I actually did not know that the gold dollar was as despised as it was. As for a photo, I have to post a link to a website with a photo as I actually do not own a 1/4 Lira right now. They've never captured my attention much. I guess I share the sentiments of the Ottomans and Americans of the past. Here's a link, the 1/4 Lira is at the bottom of the page:

 

http://www.osmanliparalari.com/ALTIN---50-25-Kurus-Meskk,LA_982-2.html#labels=982-2

 

It's a beautiful coin, but since all of the regular issue Ottoman gold denominations for Turkey proper share the same design, I tend to favor the 100 Kurush or Lira, which is the size of an American 5 dollar gold piece.

 

~Tom

[dcarr]

I think it is a mischaracterization to claim that gold dollars were "not wanted".

There may have been other forms of money that people preferred more, and forms that banks were more interested in promoting (for profit).

 

But gold dollars were money, and they were gold. People want both.

 

Are there any documented cases where someone refused to accept gold dollars that were in good condition ?

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I think it is a mischaracterization to claim that gold dollars were "not wanted".

There may have been other forms of money that people preferred more, and forms that banks were more interested in promoting (for profit).

 

But gold dollars were money, and they were gold. People want both.

 

Are there any documented cases where someone refused to accept gold dollars that were in good condition ?

 

That is not what was stated, Mr. Carr.

 

A careful reading of what RWB stated, and a careful reading of the letter he included would reveal that the words "not welcome" were used, not the words not wanted. Putting into context what Mr. RWB stated reveals that the coins were nor welcome in New Orleans.....by the banks.

 

When the letter is read carefully, it becomes clear:

 

"The discrediting of this (gold dollar)by the banks......."

 

Neither RWB or the letter is referring to the general population.

 

You may be interested in the history of the city at the time of this letter, and who controlled the docks, and why the various banks acted in their own interests and the prevalence of paper money and why. It is good stuff....filled with mayhem, powerful families conniving with each other and slitting each others throats...financially and physically.....foreign intrigue, the dock gangs and worthless paper payoffs etc.

[dcarr]

I think it is a mischaracterization to claim that gold dollars were "not wanted".

There may have been other forms of money that people preferred more, and forms that banks were more interested in promoting (for profit).

 

But gold dollars were money, and they were gold. People want both.

 

Are there any documented cases where someone refused to accept gold dollars that were in good condition ?

 

That is not what was stated, Mr. Carr.

 

A careful reading of what RWB stated, and a careful reading of the letter he included would reveal that the words "not welcome" were used, not the words not wanted. Putting into context what Mr. RWB stated reveals that the coins were nor welcome in New Orleans.....by the banks.

 

When the letter is read carefully, it becomes clear:

 

"The discrediting of this (gold dollar)by the banks......."

 

Neither RWB or the letter is referring to the general population.

 

You may be interested in the history of the city at the time of this letter, and who controlled the docks, and why the various banks acted in their own interests and the prevalence of paper money and why. It is good stuff....filled with mayhem, powerful families conniving with each other and slitting each others throats...financially and physically.....foreign intrigue, the dock gangs and worthless paper payoffs etc.

 

 

"Not welcome" is equivalent to "Not wanted". Either way, it is an incorrect characterization of the Gold Dollar status.

 

I guarantee that the banks would be more than happy to take in gold dollars in exchange for their paper notes, all the while disparaging the coins and talking up their paper.

 

 

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I think it is a mischaracterization to claim that gold dollars were "not wanted".

There may have been other forms of money that people preferred more, and forms that banks were more interested in promoting (for profit).

 

But gold dollars were money, and they were gold. People want both.

 

Are there any documented cases where someone refused to accept gold dollars that were in good condition ?

 

That is not what was stated, Mr. Carr.

 

A careful reading of what RWB stated, and a careful reading of the letter he included would reveal that the words "not welcome" were used, not the words not wanted. Putting into context what Mr. RWB stated reveals that the coins were nor welcome in New Orleans.....by the banks.

 

When the letter is read carefully, it becomes clear:

 

"The discrediting of this (gold dollar)by the banks......."

 

Neither RWB or the letter is referring to the general population.

 

You may be interested in the history of the city at the time of this letter, and who controlled the docks, and why the various banks acted in their own interests and the prevalence of paper money and why. It is good stuff....filled with mayhem, powerful families conniving with each other and slitting each others throats...financially and physically.....foreign intrigue, the dock gangs and worthless paper payoffs etc.

 

 

"Not welcome" is equivalent to "Not wanted". Either way, it is an incorrect characterization of the Gold Dollar status.

 

I guarantee that the banks would be more than happy to take in gold dollars in exchange for their paper notes, all the while disparaging the coins and talking up their paper.

 

 

 

No. Mr. Carr. It is not the same. But it is a small matter. I am sure you have studied the in-depth history of New Orleans at the time. I am not in need of your guarantee. I appreciate the offer, though.