PCGS....."The Standard For the Rare Coin Industry"

[dragon]

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Super coins. But PCGS needs to get on the ball in business like operations as NGC is much superior these days in that regard. And year after year NGC has been a lot more reliable than their competition.

[coinman_23885]

Are these coins yours personally? I would like to know before commenting on the MS68 Morgan Dollar.

[Hard Times]

I am under the assumption that the OP commentary is about grading consistency, or in this case, extreme lack thereof.........

 

Hence, the quotations around the title.

 

Best, HT

[coinman_23885]

I am under the assumption that the OP commentary is about grading consistency, or in this case, extreme lack thereof.........

 

Hence, the quotations around the title.

 

Best, HT

 

That's the way I interpreted it HT, but I didn't want to jump to conclusions. It always gets me in trouble.

[Hard Times]

Heck I get in trouble on a monthly basis on these boards, some posters have banned me, I say no worries, it is only a chat board FHS.

 

Best, HT

[dragon]

I am under the assumption that the OP commentary is about grading consistency, or in this case, extreme lack thereof.........

 

Hence, the quotations around the title.

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

Bingo

[dragon]

Are these coins yours personally? I would like to know before commenting on the MS68 Morgan Dollar.

 

 

 

No......fire away

[MarkFeld]

I am under the assumption that the OP commentary is about grading consistency, or in this case, extreme lack thereof.........

 

Hence, the quotations around the title.

 

Best, HT

 

I'm under the same impression. But if that's the point of this thread, there are an abundance of examples from which to choose for each of the major grading companies.

[coinman_23885]

The MS68 Morgan Dollar is the rattiest I have ever seen in a MS68 holder. The person who owns that is buried if the images are accurate and he/she paid MS68 money for it. Granted some of that could be toning/discoloration as opposed to hits, but the coin still looks overgraded. It is so bad, PCGS might try to avoid a payout by arguing that it is a mechanical error. The coin would be maxed out at MS66 IMHO.

[MarkFeld]

The MS68 Morgan Dollar is the rattiest I have ever seen in a MS68 holder. The person who owns that is buried if the images are accurate and he/she paid MS68 money for it. Granted some of that could be toning/discoloration as opposed to hits, but the coin still looks overgraded. It is so bad, PCGS might try to avoid a payout by arguing that it is a mechanical error. The coin would be maxed out at MS66 IMHO.

 

If the owner paid the going rate for a PCGS 68, I disagree about his being buried. That's because there are a lot of buyers who care enough about the grade on the label and who will pay accordingly.

[MJ]

You obviously have an ax to grind after you felt they under graded your coins and your eventual banning. I get it

 

For the heck of it here is an obvious tooled piece that our host missed. It happens.

 

The problem free holder of a tooled coin

 

As for that 68 Morgan.......don't buy it. Problem solved

 

Mark

[Hard Times]

I am under the assumption that the OP commentary is about grading consistency, or in this case, extreme lack thereof.........

 

Hence, the quotations around the title.

 

Best, HT

 

I'm under the same impression. But if that's the point of this thread, there are an abundance of examples from which to choose for each of the major grading companies.

 

Absolutely, no one gets it right every time. But overall they both still do pretty darn good.

 

Best, HT

[dragon]

You obviously have an ax to grind after you felt they under graded your coins and your eventual banning. I get it

 

For the heck of it here is an obvious tooled piece that our host missed. It happens.

 

The problem free holder of a tooled coin

 

As for that 68 Morgan.......don't buy it. Problem solved

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Yes, very close.....except for the following:

 

 

a) I really have no ax to grind with anyone, I just feel if you're going to tell the world that you're the standard of the entire industry that people should be able to display your standards publicly.

 

b) I have felt that both grading services have both under and overgraded my coins in past submissions, as I'm sure nearly everyone has experienced at some point.

 

c) I was not banned ATS, I asked to be removed via an email and have never looked back. As a side note, I also asked to have my long standing CC membership deactivated ATS and somehow have never missed it and still enjoy the hobby very much.

 

d) No, I wouldn't purchase that MS68 graded coin and wasn't implying that I had a problem.

 

e) I respect your opinions.

[orifdoc]

Y'all are pretty good at grading coins from a photo of a single side........

 

[coinman_23885]

Y'all are pretty good at grading coins from a photo of a single side........

 

 

Even if the reverse of the 1880-S was MS70, I don't think I could bring myself to call the coin MS68 personally. The obverse has more weight than the reverse. The coin should not be given much leniency from its weakest side, but of course that is all subjective and purely my opinion.

[dragon]

Y'all are pretty good at grading coins from a photo of a single side........

 

 

 

 

Reverses:

 

 

 

 

[BillJones]

The MS68 Morgan Dollar is the rattiest I have ever seen in a MS68 holder. The person who owns that is buried if the images are accurate and he/she paid MS68 money for it. Granted some of that could be toning/discoloration as opposed to hits, but the coin still looks overgraded. It is so bad, PCGS might try to avoid a payout by arguing that it is a mechanical error. The coin would be maxed out at MS66 IMHO.

 

If the owner paid the going rate for a PCGS 68, I disagree about his being buried. That's because there are a lot of buyers who care enough about the grade on the label and who will pay accordingly.

 

Yes, there are some registry fanatics who will buy the grade on the slab for the registry points, even if the coin inside falls well short of the grade.

[Hard Times]

 

For the heck of it here is an obvious tooled piece that our host missed. It happens.

 

The problem free holder of a tooled coin

 

Mark

 

Mark can you describe where the tooling is - not obvious to me since I don't collect these, would be good to be able to identify such from online images..

 

Best, HT

[CSdot]

Thanks for the reverse shots, as the reverse looks nicer on both coins. That 63 is severely undergraded. As for the 68, I'll just say I would keep looking if I was seeking a 68.

[jom]

 

For the heck of it here is an obvious tooled piece that our host missed. It happens.

 

The problem free holder of a tooled coin

 

Mark

 

Mark can you describe where the tooling is - not obvious to me since I don't collect these, would be good to be able to identify such from online images..

 

Best, HT

 

I second that!

 

As to the OP piece. I like the over-graded coin much better actually (due to the toning) but I think most would agree both coins were mis-graded. However, one could argue the rattler piece was graded correctly...at the time.

 

jom

[MJ]

 

For the heck of it here is an obvious tooled piece that our host missed. It happens.

 

The problem free holder of a tooled coin

 

Mark

 

Mark can you describe where the tooling is - not obvious to me since I don't collect these, would be good to be able to identify such from online images..

 

Best, HT

 

I second that!

 

As to the OP piece. I like the over-graded coin much better actually (due to the toning) but I think most would agree both coins were mis-graded. However, one could argue the rattler piece was graded correctly...at the time.

 

jom

 

The fleur- de- lis is missing from the shield. It was removed.

 

mark

[MJ]

You obviously have an ax to grind after you felt they under graded your coins and your eventual banning. I get it

 

For the heck of it here is an obvious tooled piece that our host missed. It happens.

 

The problem free holder of a tooled coin

 

As for that 68 Morgan.......don't buy it. Problem solved

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Yes, very close.....except for the following:

 

 

a) I really have no ax to grind with anyone, I just feel if you're going to tell the world that you're the standard of the entire industry that people should be able to display your standards publicly.

 

b) I have felt that both grading services have both under and overgraded my coins in past submissions, as I'm sure nearly everyone has experienced at some point.

 

c) I was not banned ATS, I asked to be removed via an email and have never looked back. As a side note, I also asked to have my long standing CC membership deactivated ATS and somehow have never missed it and still enjoy the hobby very much.

 

d) No, I wouldn't purchase that MS68 graded coin and wasn't implying that I had a problem.

 

e) I respect your opinions.

 

I respect yours as well and I miss you ATS. I understand your frustration

 

mark

[Tyrock]

Mistakes are made on both sides, but boy, that's quite a contrast. The 1885 is a real beauty.

[coinman_23885]

The fleur- de- lis is missing from the shield. It was removed.

 

mark

 

The auction company should have noted that in the description and/or sent the coin back to the consignor or NGC.

 

I don't collect these, but is $16k the going price for MS62 BNs or does the price reflect the true quality of the piece?

[RWB]

Auction companies no longer bother with grades and other niceties. They leave it all to the authentication companies thereby placing responsibility beyond their walls.

[coinman_23885]

Auction companies no longer bother with grades and other niceties. They leave it all to the authentication companies thereby placing responsibility beyond their walls.

 

That is an interesting thought. Why offer descriptions at all anymore other than about rarity, variety information, pedigrees, etc.? Mere puffery?

[MJ]

The fleur- de- lis is missing from the shield. It was removed.

 

mark

 

The auction company should have noted that in the description and/or sent the coin back to the consignor or NGC.

 

I don't collect these, but is $16k the going price for MS62 BNs or does the price reflect the true quality of the piece?

 

That's what NGC 62BN problem free pieces pieces go for. About 16K. Tooled pieces ( which are not uncommon- Thank the Brits) go for less.

 

mark

[RWB]

Before the popularity of "TPGs," auction companies graded the coins they offered as part of the description. The same for descriptions and varieties. These became part of the auction guarantee. Now, slab grades are presented along with a selling description and possibly some unlisted variety information if the coin is very scarce.

[dragon]

<<< Before the popularity of "TPGs," auction companies graded the coins they offered as part of the description. The same for descriptions and varieties. >>>

 

 

 

 

This was a far, far more enjoyable time in the hobby for me. I remember bidding in many of the 'Apostrophe' sales and also was an active bidder in many of the Superior auctions such as Buddy Ebsen, Club Cal-Neva, Wayne Miller, Jascha Heifetz, etc.

 

Today I believe the US Mint, the major grading services as well as the mega auction firm(s) have basically sucked the life blood out of the hobby and industry for the financial benefit of a very few. Of course others will contend that sending unopened sealed boxes of newly minted coins to a grading service for a special grading tag and to find out if the coins you just purchased and haven't even seen yet are MS69 or MS70 and if you hit the grading jackpot is what this hobby is about.