CAC submission

[Nutmeg Coin]

I had 16 coins I wanted to run through CAC; I called early in the week, and since the drive is not bad from here, did a walkthrough today.

 

Mr. Albanese greeted me when I arrived also he has a very nice secretary who is helpful with submissions and questions. They have free copies of the Rosen numismatic advisory which I have always appreciated, with current issues on early and later Walkers with thorough statistical analysis.

 

The submission was done in a couple hours; I was a little surprised that some PCGS older holder coins did not bean while most of the recently certified coins by both services beaned.

 

1. 1859 Small Cent Indian Cop Nic,1859 NGC AU53 4347906002 Passed 1

2. 1936 Small Cent Lincoln, Brilliant Brilliant NGC PR61RB 4347906008 Not CAC 1

3. 1908 Dime Barber PCGS MS63 81174384 Passed 1

4. 1878-CC Dollars Morgan PCGS MS62 81039589 Passed 1

5. 1883-S Dollars Morgan PCGS AU55 81015102 Passed 1

6. 1884-CC Dollars Morgan NGC MS64+ 2664040020 Passed 1

7. 1887 Dollars Morgan NGC MS62DM 4347988002 Passed 1

8. 1896-O Dollars Morgan PCGS AU53 81015104 Not CAC 1

9. 1897-O Dollars Morgan PCGS AU55 81015103 Passed 1

10. 1927 Dollars Peace PCGS MS62 81003830 Not CAC 1

11. 1912-S $5 Gold Indian Head NGC AU50 4218070008 Not CAC 1

12. 1910-S $10 Gold Indian With Motto PCGS AU50 9685319 Not CAC 1

13. 1901-S $10 Gold Liberty With Motto PCGS MS63 8390848 Not CAC 1

14. 1901-S $20 Gold Liberty Type 3 PCGS MS63 3256701 Not CAC 1

15. 1920 Silver Commemoratives Pilgrim PCGS MS64 81174386 Not CAC 1

 

On the coins that did not pass some reasons were given others I didn't get clarity on as they had left for lunch. For example on the $10 Indian, PCGS graded it AU50, I thought it could get a gold bean, but JA saw a small scratch, though I am pretty certain both services would let that pass and grade it 53 or higher now, lots of eye appeal, life, and luster. I saw a little residue or foreign substance on another gold coin, but no descriptive label on that.

 

 

[orifdoc]

Sounds like a fun trip. Their sticker-rate on gold is much, much lower than on typical copper, nickel, or silver coins. With gold, their bias seems to be heavily in consideration of originality and luster vs. hits & marks.

[coinman_23885]

Sounds like a fun trip. Their sticker-rate on gold is much, much lower than on typical copper, nickel, or silver coins. With gold, their bias seems to be heavily in consideration of originality and luster vs. hits & marks.

 

That's interesting; my success rate was always very high with gold and was lowest with copper. Maybe I'm bad with copper.

[Nutmeg Coin]

If you read the Rosen numismatic advisory on early and later gem and above Walkers, it shows a tough CAC curve when it comes to huge spreads in grades; ie when the stakes and value levels are high their percentages of approval drops.

[Raisethis2]

Seven out of 15 is pretty average as I understand it, so there's that. My experience with CAC has been that simple widgets are more likely to get the green bean than coins that cost a great deal more. I think they are probably more likely to look at expensive coins a second time, more critically.

 

Things like originality, strike, luster etc. play a bigger role with CAC than with TPG's. Then there's the whole "they will buy a coin they bean" element.

 

I value and appreciate CAC for everything they do. When you stop to think that collectors pay nothing unless the coin gets a bean and a beaned coin is a window into what you should be looking for as a collector, it's a win/win.

 

They are very careful with the gold beans. Often a coin with a green bean that get's cracked out will again green bean at a higher grade. This suggests a gold bean was probably considered but not issued. Accordingly, when they are issued it suggests that the coin has some really special qualities. Again, something to learn from.

 

 

 

 

[MJ]

If you read the Rosen numismatic advisory on early and later gem and above Walkers, it shows a tough CAC curve when it comes to huge spreads in grades; ie when the stakes and value levels are high their percentages of approval drops.

 

Nice trip report! Dayum, I let my subscription to Rosen expired. I would have loved to read about the Walkers!

 

Mark

[MarkFeld]

 

... I was a little surprised that some PCGS older holder coins did not bean while most of the recently certified coins by both services beaned. ...

 

 

Perhaps they actually made their assessments based on the coins and not the holders?

[RWB]

You paid $150 for a copy of the newsletter?

[Hard Times]

 

For example on the $10 Indian, PCGS graded it AU50, I thought it could get a gold bean, but JA saw a small scratch, though I am pretty certain both services would let that pass and grade it 53 or higher now, lots of eye appeal, life, and luster. I saw a little residue or foreign substance on another gold coin, but no descriptive label on that.

 

 

If you think it is gold bean worthy, the best way to test this is to crack it out and see if it upgrades as a raw submission. If it does not, then JA was accurate in his assessment. Good way to test your grading abilities - crack it!

 

Best, HT

[jom]

 

... I was a little surprised that some PCGS older holder coins did not bean while most of the recently certified coins by both services beaned. ...

 

 

Perhaps they actually made their assessments based on the coins and not the holders?

 

Shocking..I know. I had to sit down with a cool drink before I could continue after reading that.

 

jom

[jom]

 

For example on the $10 Indian, PCGS graded it AU50, I thought it could get a gold bean, but JA saw a small scratch, though I am pretty certain both services would let that pass and grade it 53 or higher now, lots of eye appeal, life, and luster. I saw a little residue or foreign substance on another gold coin, but no descriptive label on that.

 

 

If you think it is gold bean worthy, the best way to test this is to crack it out and see if it upgrades as a raw submission. If it does not, then JA was accurate in his assessment. Good way to test your grading abilities - crack it!

 

Best, HT

 

On the potential gold bean: I highly doubt JA would gold bean a potential AU53 vs a graded AU50. I've spoken with him a couple of times about AU material and he's told me he doesn't believe in so many AU grades (much like I don't). I'd guess the $10 Indian would have to be a real AU58 for JA to bold bean that AU50.

 

If Nutmeg thinks his $10 is a potential AU58 then, yeah, give the crackout a try...if not don't bother. On the other hand I'm not sure there is enough of a payoff for that coin in AU grades....

 

jom

[coinman_23885]

 

For example on the $10 Indian, PCGS graded it AU50, I thought it could get a gold bean, but JA saw a small scratch, though I am pretty certain both services would let that pass and grade it 53 or higher now, lots of eye appeal, life, and luster. I saw a little residue or foreign substance on another gold coin, but no descriptive label on that.

 

 

If you think it is gold bean worthy, the best way to test this is to crack it out and see if it upgrades as a raw submission. If it does not, then JA was accurate in his assessment. Good way to test your grading abilities - crack it!

 

Best, HT

 

On the potential gold bean: I highly doubt JA would gold bean a potential AU53 vs a graded AU50. I've spoken with him a couple of times about AU material and he's told me he doesn't believe in so many AU grades (much like I don't). I'd guess the $10 Indian would have to be a real AU58 for JA to bold bean that AU50.

 

If Nutmeg thinks his $10 is a potential AU58 then, yeah, give the crackout a try...if not don't bother. On the other hand I'm not sure there is enough of a payoff for that coin in AU grades....

 

jom

 

I agree with this. I do not think CAC distinguishes between the grades of AU50 and AU53. It is bizarre. I think Ankur had a thread on this on the CAC forums.

[coinman1794]

If the AU58 grade was more strictly applied to true sliders, there would, imo, be plenty of room for a 50, 53, and 55 below it.

 

 

[coinman1794]

 

They are very careful with the gold beans. Often a coin with a green bean that get's cracked out will again green bean at a higher grade. This suggests a gold bean was probably considered but not issued. Accordingly, when they are issued it suggests that the coin has some really special qualities. Again, something to learn from.

 

 

 

 

This has often been our experience, as well.

[Nutmeg Coin]

This one a while back got the gold bean: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1897-10-LIBERTY-GOLD-PCGS-CAC-GOLD-MS60-OH-PQ-/331921040341?rd=1

 

Not much of an upside as even a 62 would not increase technical value much. Thick original luster was a big plus though it had some real hits.