Response to question posted on ASK NGC

[MSalzberg]

Greg,

 

Our focus is not on monthly numbers. As a matter of fact, I had to check on this to get the information you requested. We have been extremely busy and the amount of coins we receive each month has exceeded 125,000 for a couple of years now. The real number that you may find important is the actual number of coins holdered and that has averaged 90,000 a month over the last six months. I believe we have graded more coins than all the other grading services combined over the last few years. It's interesting to me that this volume is so important to so many. Based on volume I think it clearly validates NGC as the leader and we feel this has been the case for some time. I think numbers can easily be manipulated and therefore I have always been suspect of percentages and statistics reported elsewhere. For example, I know that a few other services report only coins through the door, not actual coins graded and holdered.

 

Modern coins as a percentage are the minority of our submissions but are steadily rising. This area has been a success in my opinion and is well represented in our Registry, which is inclusive of PCGS. We have always said, "Buy the coin and not the holder." We have established ourselves on solid fundamentals.

 

We have no conflict of interest like others who compete with their own customers. We have become a resource to the hobby and industry by being innovative and offering tools for our customers. PhotoProof, which was introduced in 1992, has been a great tool for the collector and retailer alike. Our introduction of economical tiers coupled with our unparalleled Customer Service department and unequaled staff of experts make NGC what we are today. We are proud of the fact that NGC has over 1800 actual dealer members and thousands of members in our ever-growing collectors society.

 

The bottom line is that we are the industry leader but this is ambiguous since our perceived competitor is so different from us. When we come to work everyday at NGC we focus on grading and consistency. Our focus is long-term and how to best help the hobby, which in turn helps us. We focus on being innovative and leveraging our unique assets and not competing in any way with our customers.

 

Numismatic Conservation Service (NCS) was launched because there was a tremendous need for professional conservation and we knew they would do a great job at this. I personally had conserved coins while I was dealer 25 years ago just like many other dealers. The combination of skills and the breadth and depth of experience we have in all categories is far and away the strongest in the industry.

 

Did you know that Ken Krah, our international World Coin Expert, is considered the best grader in the industry on this category. Did you know that John Maben, a partner and senior grader, and myself were very successful dealers prior to joining NGC? Our latest partner Rick Montgomery, the former president of PCGS, is considered the top authenticator in the country, second to none. This nucleus gives NGC a team of graders that is by far the finest in the industry and will provide accuracy and consistency for the long term. I believe it also says a lot that our turnover of management and experts is low to non-existent.

 

The common denominator here is our people and our focus. We are the best in the country and we run a successful private company with a clear vision. We try to grade consistently and accurately and at the same time we try to do what's best for the hobby. We haven't lost perspective as our "competitors" have. I love coins and I'm a collector, I have coins that I collected 30 years ago. We respect this great hobby and will never embarrass our customers or ourselves by allowing serious conflicts of interest to affect our mission statement, which is to provide impartial and accurate third party grading with absolutely no conflict of interest. We do not compete with our customers by retailing or auctioning coins. We respect the icons in our hobby and don't embarrass them in a public way. We are not a public company nor do I think we should be. This is still a hobby and we will never lose perspective.

 

I estimate we cross approximately 50+ % of coins we see, but don't keep monthly statistics on this. We try to cross coins that make the NGC standard without thought of any politics. We don't look at the population reports to see if crossing a coin will affect the registry or the value of that item. We do this because it is the right thing to do and people count on us to do the right thing without conflict of interest.

 

Allow me to ask you something. If I'm retailing coins and building sets for people and at the same time deciding if a coin should cross, do I have conflict of interest? What if I'm buying coins from my largest submitters to sell to my retail customers who are also customers of retailers that I compete with. Confusing? I think it is a lot worse then confusing and you know something, it doesn't need to be that way.

 

I also think people shouldn't be fooled with the perception that one service is more conservative than the other. If you put a $100 bill in a holder labeled $50, believe me it will trade for more than it is worth if you base the valuation on only what the label says is in the holder. I believe NGC gets the coins grade right the first time more than any other service, and our clients recognize that we do not try to generate revenue by undergrading or being inconsistent. We have a very open operation here and I would advise everyone to talk with and develop a relationship with a reputable dealer who can guide you through some of this unfortunate political nonsense.

 

As you can tell I'm not one for giving numbers too much credence as I believe they can and are manipulated. I think there are many more important things to focus on and NGC will continue to take the high road as we have over the last 15 years. The coin business and hobby is thriving, but needs greater stability. We're here to provide that stability, day in and day out, here at NGC. You won't see me on here much as I am very busy working to improve our service, but you can call me anytime at ext. 146 to discuss matters of interest.

 

Mark Salzberg

CEO,

Numismatic Guaranty Corporation

 

PS- Thanks for the inquiry. Hope you don't mind the long response.

 

 

 

 

 

[BankNote1]

What a great post! NGC sure takes the high road!

[paigow_johnny]

I'm really curious...especially from you folks who submit/have submitted a lot. How many "non-modern" coins are being submitted raw vs. a crackout/resubmission/crossover.

[Peace_Fan]

What a great post! I'm even more confident in the choice I made to use NGC as the sole grader of my raw coins.

 

And just to echo your comment about customer service, I have been treated with respect on every call and have always gotten my questions answered promptly. Your points on conflicts of interest are also very well taken. I appreciate NGC's position of independence from the dealing side of the hobby.

 

Barry Lovvorn

[nwcs]

I appreciate reading your viewpoint on the industry. I've come to recognize the brilliance of NGC in several areas. I do hope, though, that you'll post here again from time to time to share your viewpoints on NGC and the industry.

 

Neil

[Hoot]

Thank you Mark for the time you put into a thoughtful response to Greg's inquiries. This kind of effort is one of the endeavors that sets NGC apart. I understand why Greg asked the questions the way he did, and why you answered how you did. Though the two are not a perfect match, the underlying themes of your answers - consistency of grading and upbuilding of the coin hobby - are what a third party grading company should be about. There's an obvious profit motive, but yours is not in the guise of artifice and guile that is put forth elsewhere, solely because your company is built on a "no conflict of interest" basis. Good move.

 

Hoot

[EVillageProwler]

Dear Mr. Salzberg,

 

Thank you for the detailed response. Would you mind if I re-post this "across the street?" I am hoping that it would do some good, as opposed to causing a riot. (Even if you said "yes," I still may opt not to do so.)

 

Also, you made a comment, noted below, to which I have a response that I respectfully would like you to think about:

 

We try to cross coins that make the NGC standard without thought of any politics.

 

I think politics in a highly competitive environment is unavoidable, especially when the competition seems to play politics readily. So, I don't necessarily think all politics is bad.

 

Based on my admittedly low submission count, I get the feeling that NGC is particularly tough on generic crossover submissions involving PCGS slabs. (I communicated with Mr. Maben about this in private, and I'm happy still to keep the details private.) Sometimes, bias (or, politics) come to play unintentionally. Despite the best of intentions, we are all human. It would be nice if you could review the available data regarding %-age of successful crossovers from ICG, ANACS and PCGS individually -- and then compare the results. For my own purposes, it helps to further narrow the search into different coinage periods. (My "conversation" with Mr. Maben concerned Bust coinage.)

 

Keep up the excellent work, and best regards,

 

EVP

 

[parasite]

Mark Salzberg

CEO,

Numismatic Guaranty Corporation,

 

Why do I have to go through all this [!@#%^&^] of getting a membership in order to get a submission form so I can send my coins in? Why can't I just download the form and send it in like other coin grading services offer potential customers?

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

 

 

[BankNote1]

parasite;

You can send your coins thru a NGC dealer, without signing up for anything. If you were an ANA member you could make direct submissions. Why don't you go over and ask this same question on the PCGS side of the street??

[parasite]

NOPE: I would rather just click and download a file to get the form and then just send it in myself. It is much more easy in this day and age of the computer. Why do things the old fashioned way?

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

[Android]

Mr. Salzberg,

 

Thank you for your post. I, like others, encourage you to visit and post here more often. One of the funnest parts of collecting for me is being able to listen and learn from those with vast experience in all aspects of the hobby. I'd love to hear more from you, and your whole team!

 

I have chosen NGC as my certification service of choice, and I have been very pleased with every aspect of my experience with your organization. The content of your post only reinforces my decision. Thank you again, and keep up the good work!

 

Andy

[PQSeated]

PCGS is becoming less appealing. I think that NGC has the best staff of numismatists that can possibly be in place right now. They've done an excellent job of customer service. Keep up the good work, guys! I can already see PCGS in the rear view mirror.

[chrisfuccione]

Sir your responce was very well done and I also hope that you will post more often. We can always use the guidence and wisdom. That is one thing I like about NGC, The graders and higher ups care what we(your costomers) feel. CHRIS

[michael]

 

a good thread !!!!!!!

 

sincerely michael

 

 

 

 

[paigow_johnny]

Well KINGKOIN...I guess you'll just have to go to ACG, NTC, PCI, or another one of the direct submission folks.

[tgilliams]

Dear Mark,

 

I read with great interest and joy your response to the questions posed to you. You once again have reinforced NGC's commitment to the high standards in the areas of your grading, customer service and commitment to the needs of collectors, and the accessability of NGC's management to all levels of collectors. Whether it's a collector who has 2 inexpensive coins to those with 6 six figure coins, all are treated equally. If NGC does not hold the #1 spot it will not be long until NGC is recognized as the premier third party grading firm. My hat's off to you, Rick M., Dena, John Maben and all the other top-notch professionals employed by NGC. Thank you. TG tg64155@aol.com

[parasite]

ANACS does it and I bet this hurts NGC & PCGS. I bet NGC would get more business if they tried it.

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

[BankNote1]

Parasite, did you even read Mr. Salzberg's letter? NGC handles more submissions than all of the other services combined. If you like ANACS send your coins to ANACS, no one is stopping you. As usual, you missed the point of the thread entirely.

[JWM-migration]

Mark,

 

I am a collector simply because I love the hobby. I believe that no coin holds as much value as the one given by a grandfather to his grandson. That's what sparked my interest in the hobby decades ago, and I embrace the hobby today just as tightly as I still hold on to that old beat up Franklin half my grandfather gave me.

 

Over the years my day job has been to evaluate and judge the focus and effectiveness of the management teams of some truly great companies. I have served numerous terms on the United States Department of Commerce's Board of Examiners for the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award for Business excellence. I represented the United States and trained the Mexican National Examiners. I have traveled throughout the United States, India and China working with top companies and government officials to evaluate and improve their business operating systems. I have served as the Chair of the Technical Integrity committee and Judge for the State of Arizona's best business practices.

 

If nothing else, I know an exceptionally well run company when I see one. As a collector-hobbyist, and as a professional business system analyst, I applaud the values your organization has embraced and are reflected in your post.

 

I do not wish to disparage your competitors, but I wanted you to know that there is a solid rationale behind the fact that I am proud to say that all my coins bear an NGC holder. Even those I buy in other holders I cross to NGC. The values reflected in your post speak clearly to the reasons why.

 

As an organization I wish you much success in the future, you have earned every credit you receive by truly understanding your core values and by keeping a sharp focus on them. You have made a true contribution to the collector-hobbyists that you serve.

 

Thank you,

 

Jim Maltbie

 

 

 

[parasite]

Banknote,

I don't care if NGC handled all the submissions. My point is if they could make it easy to submit your coins they would get more customers. Why make it hard to do so.

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

[Peace_Fan]

I am a collector simply because I love the hobby. I believe that no coin holds as much value as the one given by a grandfather to his grandson. That's what sparked my interest in the hobby decades ago, and I embrace the hobby today just as tightly as I still hold on to that old beat up Franklin half my grandfather gave me.

 

Jim, that's exactly how I got to where I am now, except in my case it was a handful of Peace Silver Dollars. What a great illustration!

[JWM-migration]

Barry,

 

Thanks for your comments. Sometimes, as you have confirmed, the littlest gesture by a grandparent can have a huge impact that lasts a lifetime.

 

The hobby has changed a lot since I was little. I remember taking my allowance in to a coin dealer, pulling up an old torn stool to the counter, and looking through his selection of Franklins in 2x2's spread out across the top. I would spend half an hour maybe more looking for just the right coin, I would pay $1.25 or so, he would always take ten cents of the marked price for me, and I would be happy the rest of the week.

 

Now it seems that dealers are so business-like. Especially at shows, you look around and the dealers all seem so very stoic, pressed for time, always calculating potential deals. I am not complaining, I too get caught up with the Registry chase now and again, the competition, the pace and excitement. But, it is just different now.

 

One thing I recently learned has not changed, and I don't think it ever will. I have three kids who are grown and out of the house, but there is still one little fellow left at home. He is five. Yep, he's my protégé. He's convinced that I am wrong about the value of a dime. How could anything smaller than a penny or a nickel be worth more? Everyday I come home and he goes through my change. The focus of his attention and the stare in his eyes as he scrutinizes the pile of coins, that has not changed for generations. The excitement in his voice and his smile when he finds a wheat penny, that too, the magic of anything is possible, has not changed for generations either. I hope it never does.

 

Jim

 

[EVillageProwler]

Ok, how'd this thread get here? Arch, did you wave your magic wand?!?

 

 

EVP

 

[MAULEMALL]

Ok, how'd this thread get here? Arch, did you wave your magic wand?!?

 

 

EVP

Dear Mr. Salzberg,

 

Thank you for the detailed response. Would you mind if I re-post this "across the street?" I am hoping that it would do some good, as opposed to causing a riot. (Even if you said "yes," I still may opt not to do so.)

 

Also, you made a comment, noted below, to which I have a response that I respectfully would like you to think about:

 

I guess You Didn't want to rehash .....

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

Mark: Thank you for your thoughtful post. I have always felt that "the other side" had a great potential for conflict of interest, both from their CEO's personal business interests and their major auction company (B&M). I am not accusing them of any improprieties (I have no evidence), but the lack of "arms length" bothers me. As does some of the "higher" grades that coins from important collections are given before being sold through their auction venues (re: jadecoin).

 

I also believe that they routinely undergrade some series that they receive from many small customers. IMHO, they do this in order to support their claim of "grade integrity" and to protect themselves from warranty liability. This creates a false aura of security for some, but I perceive it as being shorted my due for service rendered. This practice also may be a cause of many resubmissions. Additionally, I have always felt that NGC was the best grading service for US gold.

 

The result of these thoughts are, that I have greatly increased the portion of my collection that is in NGC slabs during the past (3) years. I believe, as a company, that you are doing many of the right things to build customer trust and long-term relationships. I also believe that many of the Board Members feel the same way as I do.

Sincerely,

OT3

 

[nwcs]

Since someone asked what I was thinking last night... how did this get back up to the top??

[Architecht]

uhm... because someone posted to it?

[EVillageProwler]

No, Arch. This thread had mysteriously reappeared on the first page. That was when I noticed, and made my post asking if you waved your magic wand...

 

EVP

 

[MAULEMALL]

No, Arch. This thread had mysteriously reappeared on the first page. That was when I noticed, and made my post asking if you waved your magic wand...

 

EVP

[Architecht]

Wasn't me. Someone made a post to it and deleted their own post. That would reset the date, but leave nothing to show how it got there.