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What's the wildest grade swing you've ever had (same service or not)?

Started by James_OldeTowne,

19 posts in this topic

James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

I ask because I just took on consignment a coin that I believe is undergraded by PCGS by a full grade level (not just by a point or so). (Yes, I will be cracking it out for upgrade.)

 

To answer my own question, waaaay back in the day, when ANACS was considered a top-flight grading service, I had a coin removed from a PCGS VF-35 holder get absolutely clobbered by ANACS, who graded it precisely F-12. 23 points variance!!! It eventually did get back into a PCGS holder, albeit they graded it VF-20 the second time around. Granted, it was an issue notorious for highly variable strikes, but that one was wacky.

 

I also had an 1806/9 bust half dollar get four highly variable grades from the three top grading services, but that's a whole 'nother story.

 

How about you?

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World Colonial

World Colonial

Posted
Posted

I have never resubmitted a coin. However, I have seen coins which are not mine over graded as you describe. The most recent one was a 1928 South Africa shilling graded PCGS AU-55 which is actually an EF. I have also seen this numerous times with pillar coinage, in both directions.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

To answer my own question, waaaay back in the day, when ANACS was considered a top-flight grading service, I had a coin removed from a PCGS VF-35 holder get absolutely clobbered by ANACS, who graded it precisely F-12. 23 points variance!!! It eventually did get back into a PCGS holder, albeit they graded it VF-20 the second time around. Granted, it was an issue notorious for highly variable strikes, but that one was wacky.

 

Do you have pictures of the coin? What do you think it's grade should have been? That is a wildly different result each time. I'm guessing the true grade was somewhere in between.

 

I also had an 1806/9 bust half dollar get four highly variable grades from the three top grading services, but that's a whole 'nother story.

 

You can't tease us like that!

 

As to your question, I have not resubmitted many coins. Really, the only coin I've submitted more than once was a 1963 Franklin half. I bought it as 65FBL. I resubmitted it, and it came back 65* FBL. I showed it to Salzberg at one of his in-person reviews at the FUN show, and he upgraded it to 65+* FBL. Granted, that is a 4-figure swing in price, but point-wise it isn't that much different.

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brg5658

brg5658

Posted
Posted

I hope Hard Times posts here...he had a thread about an 1813 Bust Half a while back...sometime in 2015...

 

First it graded PCGS XF45. It was cracked out sent raw to NGC, graded NGC AU50 (didn't CAC). Then it was cracked out (again) and graded PCGS AU53. This time, at AU53, CAC decided that it should not be stickered, so it has a green bean.

 

(shrug)

 

There's some consistency for you! :o

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

Years ago I bought a number of largely $20 gold coins from Bill VonElm from Country Lane rarities from the Santa Cruz area and had some major upgrades. OH PCGS coins rare, in AU50 coming back in AU58, XF45 coming back high-end AU. Another dealer sold me an 1861-O $20 in VF35 that graded XF40, both PCGS. There are coins that fake out the graders based on what they perceive vs. what is reality. Generally I sold the coins to wholesalers. If you knew the history of the coin and you then resold it to a retail customer you would have a responsibility to properly represent based on an honest assessment. It would be sleazy to buy a coin as XF selling it as AU58 calling it high end or "PQ+++ looks MS63" in many instances.

 

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

I cracked out a 1935 S Buffalo in a PCGS MS 62 holder hoping for NGC MS 63 with a star for terrific color. Came back AU 58+. No star.

 

They've burned that bridge at the home office.

 

 

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Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
I hope Hard Times posts here...he had a thread about an 1813 Bust Half a while back...sometime in 2015...

 

First it graded PCGS XF45. It was cracked out sent raw to NGC, graded NGC AU50 (didn't CAC). Then it was cracked out (again) and graded PCGS AU53. This time, at AU53, CAC decided that it should not be stickered, so it has a green bean.

 

(shrug)

 

There's some consistency for you! :o

 

This is correct. 45 to 53, each regrade submitted raw. I had to Conder tokens that were both 58, I cracked and submitted both raw, one came back 63, the other 64.

 

Best, HT

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted

Back in the early days of the services, Leon Hendrickson gave a talk at the Indiana State Show where he related the story of an 1884 S dollar. It was in a PCGS slab as a 62. A customer wanted to buy it but Leon thought he could resubmit it and get it into a 63 holder. he cracked it out and sent it in a dozen times. It came back with a variety of different grades ranging from AU-50 to MS-62, including being bodybagged twice for cleaning and once as a counterfeit. When it finally came back as a 62 he quit and just sold it.

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

However the stories about the small percentage of coins that have significant variability of grading results really doesn't speak to the reality of the vast majority of coins that grade the same time after time. There is no way that you could have three graders and a finalizer make substantially different grading judgments except in a small percentage of the cases.

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bourse28

bourse28

Posted
Posted

Biggest downgrade: ICG Coins cracked and submitted to PCGS. many dropped 1 or 2 points.

 

Wild Swing: PCI 64 California to ANACS 63 then back to 64 in NGC holder.

 

 

 

 

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leeg

leeg

Posted
Posted

Purchased these three from a board member. First time in to grading ATS they all BB. Second time in:

 

 

1936DlincolntruviewlgA.jpg

65RB

 

1937DlincolntruviewlgA.jpg

66RD

 

1946DlincolntruviewlgA.jpg

65RB

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jerseycat10

jerseycat10

Posted
Posted

I've been bitten by gradeflation twice recently.

 

I owned this coin 3-4 months ago in a NGC fatty holder, MS-65:

 

jVzI810.jpg

 

The coin is now in a CAC-approved PCGS MS-66+ holder, for auction at Heritage:

 

http://coins.ha.com/itm/peace-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1924-1-ms66-pcgs-cac/a/1233-4353.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

This coin is NOT of 66+ quality.

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

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If you look at grading from a strict academic and hobby perspective with less consideration given to the money aspect, back in the first five or ten years of PCGS and NGC grading was generally strict because the stakes were less. NGC has the reputation for being the most steady in its standards, if they put out a statistics page like PCGS we might see a higher percentage of details grade holders than PCGS if it were possible to analyze the date comparing apples with apples, an extremely tall order. The percentage of "mistakes" in grading has dropped if anything with the increase in knowledge, experience, and technology. But there are still a significant percentage of earlier holder coins with issues that have yet to go to the grading services due to how cumbersome and expensive that can be.

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AHFreak

AHFreak

Posted
Posted
I've been bitten by gradeflation twice recently.

 

I owned this coin 3-4 months ago in a NGC fatty holder, MS-65:

 

jVzI810.jpg

 

The coin is now in a CAC-approved PCGS MS-66+ holder, for auction at Heritage:

 

http://coins.ha.com/itm/peace-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1924-1-ms66-pcgs-cac/a/1233-4353.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

This coin is NOT of 66+ quality.

 

Looks like its at least a very solid 66 to my eyes. .. based on what I can see anyways. I understand it can be a very tough Subject especially in a case like this where the "value" increases a whole ton, But I'm wondering, at what point is it just an undergraded coin versus gradeflation ? Surely every time a coin upgrades when cracked and resubmitted cannot be attributed to gradeflation. There are just undergraded coins out there right?

 

 

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Posted

I had a Franklin proof that I bought in a rattler graded PR65. I cracked it out had it conserved & submitted iT to our hosts here. ... it came back pf69. That's far and away the wildest for me. It was early on in my journey, and so after that happened I thought I had stumbled into a gold mine. .. I started buying up every Franklin proof in rattlers I could get my hands on. Let's just say whatever money I made on the 69 was absorbed very quickly by all the ones that didn't upgrade, many down graded. ... that was back in the good ol days, about 5 years ago.

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