Grading Rainbow Toners

[Hack]

A lot of collectors buy most of their coins online by photo. The quality of photos can vary depending on the skill and equipment level. When I look at the photos of rainbow coins, there is a wide range of quality. I also see a wide range of prices on rainbow coins and the descriptions are all over the place and Monster Toning is used on many coins that are not close to what the term is supposed to represent. As a collector I would like to see some type of standardization on rainbow toners.

 

What do you think of NGC or PCGS grading rainbow toners?

 

The term rainbow would have to be quantified. For example, a rainbow coin must show three colors.

 

The grades could be much like PL and DMPL as follows:

 

Rainbow Low Toner - RL

Rainbow Mid Toner - RM

Rainbow Mid High Toner - RMH

Rainbow High Toner - RH

Rainbow Monster Toner - RMO

 

It would not be necessary to add a pricing line item for each toning grade as there could be a simple price chart based on previous sales, for example:

 

Rainbow Low Toner - Base price of coin plus $50

Rainbow Mid Toner - Base price of coin plus $100

Rainbow Mid High Toner - Base price of coin plus $200

Rainbow High Toner - Base price of coin plus $500

Rainbow Monster Toner - Base price of coin plus $1000 to Unlimited

 

Any comments are welcome.

 

 

[TonerGuy]

I like this discussion, though, I suspect that it will not get much support from those on this board....

 

Where is the popcorn emoji ??

[KeyMan64]

Many monster toners have sold for $5K, $10K, $15K premiums...

and then there is THIS COIN THAT SOLD FOR $45K+ LAST YEAR.

The toning premium on that coin is over $20K.

 

In regards to standard pricing, opinions shift as to what is cool and markets adjust. At auction, you never know what people's threshold of pain might be. There just isn't a good way of defining a lot of this. Sunnywood did a pretty good job with his color scales etc but all of it is just a broad guide.

[KeyMan64]

I like this discussion, though, I suspect that it will not get much support from those on this board....

 

Where is the popcorn emoji ??

You can use this one...

 

[Hack]

KeyMan,

 

The pricing numbers that I used were only an example. I am sure the pricing numbers could be refined to reflect the market.

[RWB]

"Grade" has little to do with tarnish/toning unless the metal has been damaged.

 

What you are referring to is an "appearance premium" and that is an individual matter not part of authentication or grading.

[Hack]

There is already a "appearance premium" given by NGC in the form of a star that does little to define the true quality of toning.

[MarkFeld]

It sounds like you want objective criteria used in an area that does not really lend itself to that..

 

Just like other grading qualifiers, terms such as "RL, RM, RMH" etc. would be largely subjective and inconsistent. And you could try to assign whatver premiums you wanted, but bidders and buyers would determine them on an individual, coin by coin basis.

 

What's wrong with judging a coin for yourself?

 

If you're dissastified with buying based on images - and I wouldn't blame you - find some sellers who offer approval service, or easy, no questions returns.

[Hack]

Mark,

 

There is nothing wrong with judging a coin myself. So many dealers today that sell online do not put any comments about the coin, and there is the other side that provides misleading information. I am looking for a tool to help purchase quality toned coins online.

 

I have been buying a number of PL and DMPL coins and without this designation, it would be a total mess trying to buy PL and DMPL coins online from photo.

 

 

[Paul S]

[MarkFeld]

I might be mistaken, but I believe, that while not consistently applied, the standards for PL and DPL are far less subjective than they'd be for toner categories.

[KeyMan64]

I might be mistaken, but I believe, that while not consistently applied, the standards for PL and DPL are far less subjective than they'd be for toner categories.

Agreed!

[Afterword]

"Grade" has little to do with tarnish/toning unless the metal has been damaged.

 

What you are referring to is an "appearance premium" and that is an individual matter not part of authentication or grading.

 

 

 

 

While I would like to believe this is true, I have my doubts when it comes to appearance/attractiveness not being a part of the grading process. It may not be an official part of the process, but I cannot help but believe it exists to some degree, nonetheless.

 

Bias is a difficult thing to restrain.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

The idea of "ranking" toners is an interesting one, but I'm not sure that it is practical, especially to the resolution you propose. The problem is, toning is highly subjective. There are no clear rules that distinguish each of your categories.

 

As a practical example - look how subjective, inconsistent, and controversial the Star is. That's only 2 levels "Is it exceptional eye appeal" or not. And that's hard enough.

[RWB]

"Bias is a difficult thing to restrain."

 

Had a horse like that once... should have named him "Bias."

[coinman_23885]

I might be mistaken, but I believe, that while not consistently applied, the standards for PL and DPL are far less subjective than they'd be for toner categories.

 

I agree. And much of the variation that collectors may see in the quality of PL/DPL coins (Morgans mainly) is not as much subjectivity as it is a very clear change in the standards. Many ratters/OGH and NGC old fatties in PL or DPL/DMPL holders would lose their designation if resubmitted.

[coinman_23885]

It would not be necessary to add a pricing line item for each toning grade as there could be a simple price chart based on previous sales, for example:

 

Rainbow Low Toner - Base price of coin plus $50

Rainbow Mid Toner - Base price of coin plus $100

Rainbow Mid High Toner - Base price of coin plus $200

Rainbow High Toner - Base price of coin plus $500

Rainbow Monster Toner - Base price of coin plus $1000 to Unlimited

 

 

This part would never work. Collecting toned coins is like collecting fine art - every piece is unique; thus, a toning price guide seems unrealistic to me. On another note, even assuming you could objectively describe toning, there are many rich collectors willing to throw fists full of money at the right coin and will stop bidding only when the other bidders do. There have been a number of common date MS65 coins to break the five figure mark recently.

[jpcienkus]

I too believe toning is too subjective to be quantified and assigned a value. I like toned coins, but I don't find all toning, even when considered "Monster" by the experts, to be attractive.

 

I'm not a big fan of a lot of the "bullseye" toning I've seen. It just doesn't appeal to me. Most of them have 3+ colors and would at least fall into the MHT category. I know you assigned an arbitrary value to that category, but I wouldn't pay any premium for the coin whether it had the MHT designation or not. I've seen huge premiums paid for this type of toning and IMO, that's perfectly okay. It's just not for me. I don't think a published toning value would get me to bid on the coin even if it was selling for way under "market value".

 

When I'm looking at toners, I can't see how using a guide would help me. Many buying decisions we make in our lives are based on emotion. IMO, coin buying coins falls into that category, toners even more so, and IMO, there's no way to put an assigned value on that.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I'd like to see ten examples in each of the categories by the OP so I know what he is talking about. Usually clear examples are the missing item in these types of discussions.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'd like to see ten examples in each of the categories by the OP so I know what he is talking about. Usually clear examples are the missing item in these types of discussions.

 

John E Cash used to have a very useful comparison of different types of toners his website, broken into levels like this. The website was working a couple of weeks ago, but it doesn't seem to be now.

[Hack]

I'd like to see ten examples in each of the categories by the OP so I know what he is talking about. Usually clear examples are the missing item in these types of discussions.

 

I do not have the expertise to provide examples of the different toning levels as I am new to collecting the rainbow toned coins. I did not know what a Monster toned coin was until I saw the J. E. Cash web site. I was struggling trying to identify the different levels of toning and how and why toned coins were priced, and what was a good or fair price for a quality toned coin.