Response from Ebay Seller that Completely Turned Me Off

[TomB]

One of the features I like about ebay is the ability to ask a seller a question about their merchandise. I use this feature quite a bit when I see a coin listed where the seller has not included anything in writing about their return policy. The other day there was what appeared to be an attractive coin for sale, however, it had an opening reserve of several hundred dollars and the seller did not include information as to any return policy. I sent the following email, through the ebay system, to this seller-

 

Hi- Do you have a return policy for the coin in case I win it and would like to return it? Thank you.

 

The response I received is below-

 

So whats the reason why you will send the coin in case you win?Is there any problem that you see in the coin? I guarantee that the coin is genuine.Thanks.

 

Does this strike anyone else as odd or, at least, as completely ignoring the one question that I asked? This seller is not new to selling coins on ebay, he often has listings, and all his coin images appear to be scans. Is it that unusual to think that a scan of a coin might not truly represent what the coin would look like in-hand? The answer from the seller really irritated me, and I am relatively sure that I will never bid on an auction by this person.

 

Am I missing something in the response to me? Did they really answer the question of whether I could return the coin or not? I guess at this point I am just curious as to why someone would even respond to an ebay question that was as direct as mine was with such a runaround answer.

[gmarguli]

I don't find his answer as bad as you do, but it isn't phrased in the most gentle manner. I can also understand what he is asking. If he sells a lot on eBay, he's probably run into every wacko there is.

 

There are a lot of people on eBay that want to use the auction service like an approval service. To me it sounds like he'll accept returns for some reasons, but not others and just wants to know what your reason might be.

 

I'd probably send him another email stating that it appears he uses a scanner to take pictures of coins and that in your experience sometimes the scanned image does not capture the essence of the coin and if it turns out not to be what you are envisioning that you may feel the need to return it.

 

When people ask me about returns, I give a standard response: I try to take accurate pictures and give accurate descriptions and start all my auctions at 1c with no reserve so the market can dictate value. However, should you feel the picture or description didn't accurately portray the coin, I'll be happy to take the coin back and give you a full refund.

 

I think that lets them know that I'm not running an approval service, but that if they are genuinely unhappy they can return it.

[michael]

personally if i was in charge i would not allow ebay to exist anymore

[Wihlborg]

Tom,

 

That reply did sound defensive and evasive to me.

 

While I agree with Greg that eBay should not be used as an approval service, it also should not be used as a dumping ground to get rid of problem coins by listing auctions with bad images, incomplete or no descriptions, and a no return policy.

 

Personally, I will not bid on an eBay auction unless the seller offers a full return policy. I can tell you that there have been a number of times where I was very interested in a coin listed on eBay, and would have been a very strong bidder if the seller had offered a return policy. Instead I watched these auctions end with a winning bid well below what I would have been willing to bid.

 

I do not use eBay as an approval service, but I do want the peace of mind that knowing if I should be sent a coin that was not as described or as nice looking as its image I can return it brings.

 

In my opinion, a full return policy stated in the auction description lets a bidder know that the seller is willing to stand behind what they are offering and not just trying to stick someone with an overgraded, problem, or AT coin.

 

John

[scroll]

I sometimes get stupid responses like that from sellers who claim they know nothing about what they are selling. OTOH, could be that the seller is a novice and thinks you're thinking of pulling something. I don't know.

 

Still, when you're looking at a few $hundred for an item a seller should have to stand behind the offering or state in no uncertain terms NO RETURNS.

[TomB]

It's interesting to note that Greg and I come to opposite conclusions based upon this seller's response to me. Since he went through the trouble to answer my email, and to craft it in such a way that he is only guaranteeing authenticity, I believe strongly that he would not accept any returns. His defense would be to point to the auction and his email and say that he never said he would accept anything.

 

I have to disagree somewhat with the notion that ebay should not be used as an approval service since the bidder should be happy and satisfied with the purchase. If a seller describes something in good faith and a bidder puts in a good faith bid, there is still room to have an unsatisfactory transaction. In these instances the bidder should be made whole, minus shipping. Others are free to disagree, but I try to treat people the way that I would like to be treated.

[reid1836]

Hi Tom,

I think that perhaps your question may have caused the seller to become somewhat suspicious. Perhaps if you had just simply asked if the seller had any type of return policy, and left off the part about " in case I win it and would like to return it". It could have been construed that you were already preparing to return it even before you had placed a bid. Even though I`m sure that certainly wasn`t your intention. Sometimes the written word can be interpreted several different ways.

[RGT]

personally if i was in charge i would not allow ebay to exist anymore

 

I'm quite sure most of us are glad that you aren't in charge. I've been collecting for over 30 years, but until I found ebay about eight years ago my collection didn't really amount to much. Since then I've been able to pick up some nice coins at reasonable prices, usually less than I would have had to pay from a local dealer.

 

Sure there are land mines and pitfalls on ebay, but a knowledgable buyer can avoid those 99% of the time. And the smart buyer can do as Tom did and make sure there is a return policy before bidding.

 

I don't think anyone would say buying on ebay is better than buying in person. But some of us aren't able to attent shows and don't have local dealers close by with large inventories to choose from. Heck, some of us even live in remote places, like Montana where coins rarely even circulate and most transactions are done with pelts and livestock.

[RGT]

I think I would interpret the reply the same way Tom did. I also wouldn't bid unless I was ok with not having a return policy. That would probably only happen if it was in a reputable slab and I was getting it very cheap.

 

I've returned my share of coins but I'd say my return rate is much lower now than it used to be and way lower than it was before ebay when I was buying from one line descriptions in Coin World ads.

 

I've never understood this mentality of sellers claiming they are being used as an approval service. As a buyer, returning a coin is the last thing I want. I hate to return a coin more than I dislike having one returned to me. The buyer is usually the one out postage both ways. Many sellers pad their shipping so they make a couple of bucks even when the coin is returned. What buyer in their right mind would abuse the priveledge of wasting their money on shipping and not end up with a coin to show for it?

 

I say, give me a return policy, but don't force me to have to use it.

[jom]

Simple. No return policy, no bid from me. If I get some jack-arse response like Tom got the seller can go fly a kite on a freeway as far as I'm concerned. There are plenty of other coins around to purchase.

 

jom

[Dry]

Sounds like he wanted to work out any problems before you place your bid. But he should have stated his return policy to you nonetheless. And should have been more friendly about it.

[Hoot]

Heck, some of us even live in remote places, like Montana where coins rarely even circulate and most transactions are done with pelts and livestock.

 

You forgot tobacco.

 

Hoot

[spy88]

I for one, simply will not bid on an item that doesn't have a return policy to begin with. The seller had the opportunity to state one if they really wanted to offer one when they listed the item. If I have to ask if they do offer one, then I used to keep the email with the return guarantee until after the auction was over in case I won. If I wished to return the item, I would also include a copy of their email to keep them from reneging on the return (as has happened to me before).

 

Yes, sometimes a seller will actually and honestly forget to include any return policy to their auctions but these are far and few between the sellers with over 100+ feedbacks and zero negs. I figure if they are habitual sellers on eBay and don't offer one, then they won't after the fact either. JMHO.

[Oldtrader3]

Many of the descriptions and pictures on EBay are not definitive enough for me to chance a bid unless the seller has a return policy. Even the fairly good pictures are usually pretty small and leave a lot to the imagination.

[Beijim]

Tom,

 

1. This seller is a jerk. Not only is he illiterate, judging from his reply, but he failed to answer your question and instead gave you sh*t for even asking. He would never get my bid on anything.

 

2. While eBay may pretend to be an auction, it is not. In real auctions, prospective bidders have an opportunity to physically view the lots. A person offering something for bid in a real auction understands (and submits to) this. Bidders in turn understand that they pass on the inspection opportunity at their own risk. It is a level playing field.

 

In the case of items listed on eBay, where generally no physical inspection is possible, the bidder is entirely at the mercy of the seller's honesty. Unless a return privilege exists, the playing field is distinctly not level.

 

3. And finally, the correct answer to your question would have been:

 

Absolutely. Your satisfaction is paramount. If you're unhappy please let me know so we can arrange a return.

 

This is how I run my eBay listings. I have never (knock on HTML) had a return. In my opinion, anything less indicates an issue somewhere that bidders may be well advised to avoid.

 

Best regards,

Beijim

[Leothelion]

I would have responded by letting this guy know that I buy thousands of dollars worth of coins every month and I don't buy coins over the internet without a return policy. If you have described the coin the best you can but if I don't like it whether it's slabbed or not, the coin's coming back! Nobody tells me what to collect, I decide that! If the coin has a scratch, nick, carbon spot or perhaps the coin is not brilliant enough or has less then a full strike or possibly looks cleaned, anything that is impossible to see in a picture and if I don't like it, it will be in the mailbox on it's way back! You don't have a policy, thank you for your time!

 

On a second note, I have bought several coins knowing full well the seller did not have a return policy stated in their auctions. If the coin fails to meet the description the seller gave for such coin, believe me, it's going back and I'm due a refund.

 

And lastly, anyone who lives under this, "I'm not an approval service" I laugh in their faces and they can stick that BS right up their bazooka! What a bunch of hogwash! Anyone who lies down like some scared dog and falls for such monkee business is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person! I got a good laugh out of this BS recently when I read the terms to Super's recent auctions. Well guess what? Generally, I won't waste my time bidding with those kind of people.

 

And here's the reason why! No two people can agree or come to exact terms to what full luster is! Or how brilliant a coin is! Of if a coin is fully struck and so on!

Dealers can be very shrewed and they are very good at giving evasive answers to sell a coin.

Here's how it goes, " What did you say?" The seller responds, "I said it's a very

brilliant coin!" And you come back with, "Well, how brilliant is that sir? Seller; " It's a blast white coin!" Now your thinking you don't want a white coin! Believe me folks, you will want a return policy regardless what is said or written in any coin description! How beautiful in the toning? It has monster toning! What? It's very colorful! How colorful is that? I don't know! Why? It's because I haven't seen the coin yet! Oh?

 

HELLO?

 

Leo

 

If I have offended anyone, I apologize but live and learn my friends!

 

personally if i was in charge i would not allow ebay to exist anymore

 

And Micheal can have a sense of humor!

[cpm9ball]

I would have responded by letting this guy know that I buy thousands of dollars worth of coins every month and I don't buy coins over the internet without a return policy. If you have described the coin the best you can but if I don't like it whether it's slabbed or not, the coin's coming back! Nobody tells me what to collect, I decide that! If the coin has a scratch, nick, carbon spot or perhaps the coin is not brilliant enough or has less then a full strike or possibly looks cleaned, anything that is impossible to see in a picture and if I don't like it, it will be in the mailbox on it's way back! You don't have a policy, thank you for your time!

 

On a second note, I have bought several coins knowing full well the seller did not have a return policy stated in their auctions. If the coin fails to meet the description the seller gave for such coin, believe me, it's going back and I'm due a refund.

 

And lastly, anyone who lives under this, "I'm not an approval service" I laugh in their faces and they can stick that BS right up their bazooka! What a bunch of hogwash! Anyone who lies down like some scared dog and falls for such monkee business is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person! I got a good laugh out of this BS recently when I read the terms to Super's recent auctions. Well guess what? Generally, I won't waste my time bidding with those kind of people.

 

And here's the reason why! No two people can agree or come to exact terms to what full luster is! Or how brilliant a coin is! Of if a coin is fully struck and so on!

Dealers can be very shrewed and they are very good at giving evasive answers to sell a coin.

Here's how it goes, " What did you say?" The seller responds, "I said it's a very

brilliant coin!" And you come back with, "Well, how brilliant is that sir? Seller; " It's a blast white coin!" Now your thinking you don't want a white coin! Believe me folks, you will want a return policy regardless what is said or written in any coin description! How beautiful in the toning? It has monster toning! What? It's very colorful! How colorful is that? I don't know! Why? It's because I haven't seen the coin yet! Oh?

 

HELLO?

 

Leo

 

 

If I have offended anyone, I apologize but live and learn my friends!

 

personally if i was in charge i would not allow ebay to exist anymore

 

And Micheal can have a sense of humor!

 

[Leothelion]

I would have responded by letting this guy know that I buy thousands of dollars worth of coins every month and I don't buy coins over the internet without a return policy. If you have described the coin the best you can but if I don't like it whether it's slabbed or not, the coin's coming back! Nobody tells me what to collect, I decide that! If the coin has a scratch, nick, carbon spot or perhaps the coin is not brilliant enough or has less then a full strike or possibly looks cleaned, anything that is impossible to see in a picture and if I don't like it, it will be in the mailbox on it's way back! You don't have a policy, thank you for your time!

 

On a second note, I have bought several coins knowing full well the seller did not have a return policy stated in their auctions. If the coin fails to meet the description the seller gave for such coin, believe me, it's going back and I'm due a refund.

 

And lastly, anyone who lives under this, "I'm not an approval service" I laugh in their faces and they can stick that BS right up their bazooka! What a bunch of hogwash! Anyone who lies down like some scared dog and falls for such monkee business is a insufficiently_thoughtful_person! I got a good laugh out of this BS recently when I read the terms to Super's recent auctions. Well guess what? Generally, I won't waste my time bidding with those kind of people.

 

And here's the reason why! No two people can agree or come to exact terms to what full luster is! Or how brilliant a coin is! Of if a coin is fully struck and so on!

Dealers can be very shrewed and they are very good at giving evasive answers to sell a coin.

Here's how it goes, " What did you say?" The seller responds, "I said it's a very

brilliant coin!" And you come back with, "Well, how brilliant is that sir? Seller; " It's a blast white coin!" Now your thinking you don't want a white coin! Believe me folks, you will want a return policy regardless what is said or written in any coin description! How beautiful in the toning? It has monster toning! What? It's very colorful! How colorful is that? I don't know! Why? It's because I haven't seen the coin yet! Oh?

 

HELLO?

 

Leo

 

 

If I have offended anyone, I apologize but live and learn my friends!

 

personally if i was in charge i would not allow ebay to exist anymore

 

And Micheal can have a sense of humor!

 

 

Thank you!

 

I remember asking a seller for a RP and he said that I wasn't going to need one because the coin was really nice! He was right! It was a beautiful toned nickel but you really never know! It's always nice to have some kind of safty net when buying anything. If the coin is what the seller said it would be then there's no problem! And a seller should be comfortable with that, if he's on the level. If the seller has been reasonable and we have had several transactions, in such dealings, there are also several returns! When such relationships develope, I have no problem paying postage both ways and then some. It takes time to find those kind of dealers. And you need to remember, it cost money to be a dealer. If you know they have the coins you're searching for, you'll need to meet them more then half way, just as long as the nice coins keep coming. It's just like supporting your local coin shops! That is, if they have been on the level with you!

 

Leo

[papag]

Tom and Everyone

I want to thank Tom for this listing in the boards. As you know or don't know I am selling off a lot of my collection and I have sold alot before and I never really have put down in the description a return policy. After reading this thread I realize I better put a return policy down. I have had returns and never had any problem returning a bidders payment by even paying for the shipping back. But I see alot of good people on this board that may not even look at my auctions because of not having a return policy. Tonight I hope to revise my auctions I have up, to include a return policy. Since I don't want to give it away either on the return policy what would you say would be a reasonable decription of my return policy. Just adding a sentence that says "If you are not satisfied with your purchase, you may return it in 5 days." would this surfice. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Papag

Ken

[TomB]

Howdy Ken. In my opinion, the "return within 5 days" wording is kind of nebulous since you aren't defining what the five day window is. That is, is it from your shipping date; the buyer's receiving date; some other date?

 

In my auctions, I always include a sentence that is quite precise. My listings include something to the effect of "Buyer has 15 day return privilege; from my insured, US mail postmarked package to your insured, US mail postmarked package". I find this to be pretty straightforward.

[Leothelion]

I usually keep my auctions short and sweet, the more wording you let out, the more discrepancy can enter into the argument!

"Pay exact postage and ins." "7 day return policy" "THANK YOU for stopping by!"

I hate it when I come across auctions that have terms written out a mile long, how they threaten you with this" I'm the boss here, do exactly what I say" kind of garbage! Who has time to read all that stuff when you got browsing to do. What's really amazing about these epitaphs is that they'll have spent all this time writing but fail to provide a large detail picture of the coin. And alot of times, they won't even have picture. Just some long drawn out terms on how they might end up screwing you in the transaction! Some folks, like me, with too much time on their hands can come up with some of the most bizarre garbage that you'd ever want to read. Every once in awhile I'll need to call and get a straight answer to some simple questions when I come across such auctions and the seller thinks I'm more interested in talking to him as the reason why I called!

 

Leo