Would additional 2nd-tier grading services be good for the hobby?

[Danye West]

We have CAC. MAC is sort of a thing that nobody cares about or even understands.

But would anyone submit to a service specifically for toning, cameo contrast, strike, etc?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

As a newb I think "what can grading or buying graded do for me"...figure that out then figure out what is NOT done by the existing grading services that a new service could do.

 

In my newb opinion graded coins are for when the internet or hundreds of dollars are involved.

 

On fleabay a grade lets you know two things, a coin is real and if the pics are representative.

 

In person a grade lets me know a coin is real, not a fake. I can see the darned thing with my own eyes but maybe I can't eye a good fake.

 

As a new grading service what else can you offer?

[Danye West]

I mean, grades really are second opinions, or verification that a coin is legit.

The more opinions, the better.

[coinman_23885]

I wouldn't care about the add on services for toning, contrasts, etc. If, however, a specialty service developed a significant influence on the market, then I would have my coins stickered prior to liquidation. It would not influence my purchasing decisions.

[Zoins]

We have CAC. MAC is sort of a thing that nobody cares about or even understands.

But would anyone submit to a service specifically for toning, cameo contrast, strike, etc?

 

We also have PQ, WINGS and others.

[Raisethis2]

Can't see any value in yet another service. Eye appeal is something you'll see for yourself and with CAC, the review is being made by some of the most credible people to ever engage in the hobby.

 

All the other services are a step back from CAC.

[RWB]

No. Why make the present mess more complicated, confusing and inconsistent?

[cpm9ball]

Additional companies would surely benefit SleazeBay, SpayPal and Bidiots.

 

Chris

[johnny9434]

sure and more money to spend. ill keep trying to grade ty

[jerseycat10]

I still think there is room for services that use specialized equipment to measure luster and color spectrum.

[jom]

I think people should spend more time learning to grade themselves. Maybe there can be a company devoted to teaching such practices...

 

jom

[mumu]

Slab and sticker grading companies are the next frontier. Slab protecting slabs are a must and some kind of spray or treatment to keep my stickers in like new condition and adhesive conservation.

 

Nothing brings more confidence and joy in a $20 coin than the $200 worth of services its encapsulated in.

[Danye West]

How about a variety certification service?

[brg5658]

How about a variety certification service?

 

One already exists for VAMs for Morgan dollars, and for varieties of Eisenhower dollars.

 

If you want varieties attributed, the best TPG has historically been ANACS. They attribute most any variety you can think of. Others likely know more, as varieties are not my collecting area -- quite frankly, minute varieties bore me to tears.

[Nutmeg Coin]

We already have too many gimmicks. I would just want to see the streamlining of a smart app. scanner grading tool for all coins, raw and slabbed. Too many people are getting stung by problem material. I was at a show yesterday where one frequent show dealer had a lot of raw coins that were classic 1800s type silver at very high prices, just too many traps in that arena. We need to try to protect the hobby by not allowing inaccurately graded raw coins to keep hurting confidence of collectors. The certified coins have guarantees behind them.

[coinman_23885]

I think people should spend more time learning to grade themselves. Maybe there can be a company devoted to teaching such practices...

 

jom

 

In some circles, that is heresy.

[World Colonial]

We already have too many gimmicks. I would just want to see the streamlining of a smart app. scanner grading tool for all coins, raw and slabbed. Too many people are getting stung by problem material. I was at a show yesterday where one frequent show dealer had a lot of raw coins that were classic 1800s type silver at very high prices, just too many traps in that arena. We need to try to protect the hobby by not allowing inaccurately graded raw coins to keep hurting confidence of collectors. The certified coins have guarantees behind them.

 

The biggest reason this is a problem is because of the price level, not because of problem coins, some of which really don't have anything wrong with them at all other than NGC or PCGS won't assign a numerical grade.

 

Many prior posts have mentioned that it was a bigger problem prior to TPG. True, and once again it was because of the price level because US coins have always been much more expensive than those from anywhere else.

 

It has also increased the risk on the coins I buy as the price level has increased, even though my series are much cheaper. I buy fewer raw coins than I used to for this reason.

 

What I am describing here with market acceptability, it is the same with counterfeits. More expensive coins or those which are relatively nominally priced but with an outsized collector base are a lot more likely to be faked. This is why US coins are counterfeited more than others.

[Nutmeg Coin]

The heart of that raw coin problem is pricing; if they want to sell a proof Unc. problem coin as "PR63" or a problem Unc. details coin as a "gem" there need to be more serious consequences; and the dealer I saw all those $500-$3000 raw coins at, probably doesn't have the type of disincentives to stop doing it. To phrase it a different way when you sell a $100 type coin based on the impairment as a $500 no problem coin the hobby is getting hurt.

[Raisethis2]

I do agree NutmegCoin. It's shameful for Dealers selling damaged goods at a price point that suggests it's just fine. If there were an app that scanned a coin to verify it's not been cleaned or recolored they'd probably escort you out of a coin show or auction for using it.

 

You can bet there's a strong desire to keep you in the dark.

 

Along those lines when there's a grading class associated with a major show or event it should be ticketed as first come/first served and FREE to attend. Charging hundreds of dollars for collectors to attempt to educate themselves serves the bottom line and (as usual) not the consumer.

 

I say that as I watch the NASCAR race out of the corner of my eye admiring the near empty stands. Just another example of killing the golden goose.

[BillJones]

The only thing that could benefit collectors would more first tier grading services that would keep NGC and most especially PCGS on their toes. Collectors need more first class grading services that slab coin than only two. Competition is good.

 

The attitudes of the "PCGS - CAC combination is wonderful!" crowd. is irritating and dangerous.

[cpm9ball]

I think people should spend more time learning to grade themselves. Maybe there can be a company devoted to teaching such practices...

 

jom

 

In some circles, that is heresy.

 

It's also hearsay!

 

Chris

[Mozin]

With CAC added, I am comfortable with what we now have in grading from PCGS and NGC. Anything more would simply confuse the situation.

 

I have an 1861 G$1 in NGC 64 Plus Star CAC. That says more than enough for me.

[World Colonial]

What you have described has always existed and it always will exist, whether the coins are graded or not. There isn't going to be any technology that is ever going to tell anyone that a coin is "market acceptable", misattributed or misrepresented.

 

 

"Market acceptability" is also a big part of the problem. Many "market acceptable" coins are inferior to so called "problem coins" but collectors collectively choose to create the price spreads.

 

The point I was making is that most of the problem is because the prices of so many of these coins are so high. In the past when prices were much lower, collectors would have cared a lot less or not at all and how much they care both now and in the past is directly correlated to the price.

 

There is no policing that is ever going to protect someone from themselves. In the example you used, no one needs to buy raw US coins, whether in the $500 to $3000 range or otherwise, especially if they don't know how to identify the issues you saw. I mean, it isn't like you can't find these coins in a holder. Most US coins of any value have already been graded and those that aren't, well there is probably a reason for it.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

The heart of that raw coin problem is pricing; if they want to sell a proof Unc. problem coin as "PR63" or a problem Unc. details coin as a "gem" there need to be more serious consequences; and the dealer I saw all those $500-$3000 raw coins at, probably doesn't have the type of disincentives to stop doing it. To phrase it a different way when you sell a $100 type coin based on the impairment as a $500 no problem coin the hobby is getting hurt.

 

I leave negative reviews and hassle folks on Facebook when their businesses stick it to me or people I know.

 

In Missouri private companies are given the authority to collect fees and issue new licenses for ppl and license plates for cars. The contracts are historically given to the govenor's buddies or supporters. I have hassled the management team of one via their public Facebooks. Heck, I signed up for Facebook while waiting there . At least they had chairs.

[messydesk]

How about a variety certification service?

You mean this?

Been doing it for over 10 years and close to 10000 coins. Mostly VAMs, but I'll do other stuff that I have sufficient attribution materials for.

[coinman_23885]

How about a variety certification service?

You mean this?

Been doing it for over 10 years and close to 10000 coins. Mostly VAMs, but I'll do other stuff that I have sufficient attribution materials for.

 

You should do Capped Bust Half Dollars by Overton number. I am sure that would be popular for many beginners and would also be a useful marketing tool.

[coinman_23885]

How about a variety certification service?

You mean this?

Been doing it for over 10 years and close to 10000 coins. Mostly VAMs, but I'll do other stuff that I have sufficient attribution materials for.

 

And for what it is worth, other than CAC and Rick Snow's sticker, I think your slab add on service is the only one with any real utility.

[messydesk]

You should do Capped Bust Half Dollars by Overton number. I am sure that would be popular for many beginners and would also be a useful marketing tool.

Like this?

 

 

Thought I had a picture of one on a TPG slab, but you get the idea.

[Hard Times]

I agree with jom, more stickers would be pretty useless, learning how to grade better, priceless.

 

Best, HT

 

 

[TonerGuy]

Why oh why cant someone just switch to a 100 pt grading system using decimals.

 

3 graders, each one gives it a grade to hundredths and then you get the avg of the three...