Tooled gold coin "improved"

[Nutmeg Coin]

There was this thread by a coin detective ATS: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=951073

 

A couple questions; I have had gold coins come back from grading as "tooled" details once or twice. What are generally the categories the tooling falls into as well as the methods?

 

How would a coin doctor "improve" a gold coin like this?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

That was a neat thread you linked to. Reminded me of classic Mustang Bondo queens.

[KeyMan64]

Allen Stockton has the skills to do that, if not better.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Just curious, but can anyone comment on the % Probability of coins that have been "doctored" slipping through into TPG holders, with there being no mention of "details" on the holders?

 

Extremely rare?

 

I went to the Stockton site, and explored the "Guestbook." Scary stuff people are asking to have done there on their problem coins. Techniques of actually adding gold to coins, for example, to remove rim dings, and then "toning" them up afterwards.

 

I'll take my rim dings and abrasions, and live with them, thank you. Badges of un-doctored authenticity that add "interest" to the history of what they've been through.

 

 

[RWB]

Interesting, informative thread.

[Zoins]

Just curious, but can anyone comment on the % Probability of coins that have been "doctored" slipping through into TPG holders, with there being no mention of "details" on the holders?

 

Extremely rare?

 

Depends on the series.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Maybe Stockton has better success with some coins with a better pay-off? When I was new to the hobby I sent him a few gold coins which came back worse than when I sent them; and I asked him to call me before doing anything which he failed to do. I took the matter up with the ANA since he advertises month after month in "The Numismatist". Weird.

[BillJones]

Just curious, but can anyone comment on the % Probability of coins that have been "doctored" slipping through into TPG holders, with there being no mention of "details" on the holders?

 

Extremely rare?

 

I went to the Stockton site, and explored the "Guestbook." Scary stuff people are asking to have done there on their problem coins. Techniques of actually adding gold to coins, for example, to remove rim dings, and then "toning" them up afterwards.

 

I'll take my rim dings and abrasions, and live with them, thank you. Badges of un-doctored authenticity that add "interest" to the history of what they've been through.

 

 

I don't think that there have been huge numbers of tooled gold coins that have gotten into PCGS and NGC holders. The most common work that has been ruled "market acceptable" has been dipping, which is quite prevalent in coins dated say before the Civil War. Some coins have also been lightly brushed to make them brighter. With this it all depends upon the degree. If the hairlines are obvious, the coin is likely to have been body bagged or would get a "details" or "genuine" grade today.

 

The most common bit of repair work that has gotten under the wire has been putty. This involves the use a agent like Bondo to fill in scratches covered with a gold substance to make the coin appear to be a higher grade than it is. The trouble with this is that the "Bondo" comes up through the surface after a while which gives the coin a odd streaky appearance. There was a lot of controversy about this ATS when a collector got stuck with a better date (coin worth $15,000) St. Gaudens $20 gold that "went bad." At first PCGS bulked on making good on this piece, but public pressure got to them eventually. Here is an example of a coin with putty work after it has gone bad.

 

 

I going to couch my answer here in terms of the time period. I know that this is a controversial comment, but I think that more stuff is getting through of late. I seen more disappointing coins and have heard and read more comments from other collectors that the overall quality is not what it was. This might be a reflection of the current market. There is a shortage of good material for sales these days. Still think that more stuff is getting though now.

 

There was coin at the summer FUN auction that interested me. It looked good in the photos, but when I saw the coin in person, I was very disappointed. When I swirled the coin under the light, I saw definite sights that the surfaces had been altered. My take was putty, but whatever it was, it was not indicative of an original mint surface. The coin was one that sold for "chump change." It sold for over $5,000 in the auction.

 

[CaptHenway]

Stockton's father was the better workman. While I was at ANACS we once got in a High Relief $20 that had a pin soldered onto one side. We certified it as genuine, pin soldered on or whatever.

 

About six months later we got it back with the old certificate and a letter explaining that the owner had sent it to the Mr. Stockton who advertised in the Numismatist, and he had removed the solder that held the pin on the coin. Even with the picture in front of me I could not see any evidence that the coin had once been soldered.

 

TD

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Bill, thanks for the commentary and photos. (I think I have seen them before.)

 

There's a "moon money" coin I'm interested in (doubt I'll pull the trigger because I just can't commit on so much $$$ without first getting the rest of my collection in order) and when I explored the NCG Price Guide, links led me to HA videos, and they show these short 17s 360 degree videos of coins being "swirled" under light.

 

If, going forward, I decide to repair my US gold collection to be more coherent with my long term goals, I'll definitely add the swirl technique to my appraisal arsenal.