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1809 Bust half Type III edge

Started by Nutmeg Coin,

18 posts in this topic

coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
A dealer friend Don had this coin at the Danbury coin club show today, and swears it is undergraded at AU53. Thoughts?

 

http://i.imgur.com/nEJOjZt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/XeJCR4y.jpg http://i.imgur.com/87nj7H5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/InvmSNm.jpg

 

Here is what I can say from my VERY limited view of the coin:

 

It appears to be exceptionally sharp and a strong, meaty looking AU coin, with lots of frost in the devices and protected areas. That doesn't mean its under-graded, however. My guess, assuming he has some reason to think its nicer than AU53, is that it would probably never grade higher than AU55, regardless; due to handling marks and noticeable light rub, both on the highest points and in the open fields. I really cannot grade it one way or the other, but I would absolutely cap the grade at AU55, and it would be a stretch (but not an impossibility) for it to get there, from what I can see.

 

MANY TIMES, the only difference between an AU53 and AU55; and SOMETIMES between AU53 and AU58; is the strength of the luster in the open fields. Think of the fields as parts of the design. When the luster is missing in the broad, open fields, it has been worn off, and you get broken cartwheel and handling lines. Even if there is no high point wear at all, wear on the open fields will cause an AU vs MS grade.

 

Also, AU53 coins that have been dipped, or otherwise brightened, will often look nicer than the assigned grade at a glance, due to bright surfaces where you might have otherwise seen dull rub and patina. This coin might not have seemed so unusual for the grade, had it been well-toned; and many toned AU53s might look more like this piece, if dipped. Again, the presence of unbroken luster and the number of handling lines will confirm the actual condition of the surfaces, and typically be the deciding factor in a coin's grade.

 

 

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
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The coin looks flashy in hand, probably maxed out with the dip and generously graded. He is going to try CAC, hoping for the gold sticker. It is a low pop. issue. PCGS has it as an R5: http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/6094/53?redir=t

 

I doubt that it would achieve the Gold sticker, even if they thought it was an AU55, due to the unnatural appearance and presence of handling marks. They tend to give them out very gingerly, only to coins that have grades that are unquestionably wrong.

 

 

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

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Bust halves appear to be graded on a looser curve than later halves; and good luck getting a CAC sticker on them, they are very strict on those and even coins that I thought were totally original did not pass just because of a toning spot or something.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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The coin is overgraded at 53. That looks more like a 50 - and not an attractive one. The poor thing has been dipped blast white, and is not a coin that I would buy. Based on the distinctly unappealing surfaces, I'd probably net value it at EF-45, and be happy to get rid of it at that.

 

I would hope that CAC would refuse to sticker a coin like that.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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The coin is stripped white and is unattractive to me, but I don't think we can gage the luster or true grade very we'll from that picture. I would never consider buying it myself, but other people would. Not everyone understands that this "look" means the coin is dipped; some collectors, and dealers, won't buy a coin, regardless of age, unless it looks like this.

 

Since none of us know what it looks like in person, I would reluctantly give PCGS the benefit of a doubt that it's an AU+ grade, dipping aside.

 

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jom

jom

Posted
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The owner sat down with Mr. Albanese at CAC who said it was basically an AU58 with a touch of cleaning, hence the net grade and no CAC.

 

Here's a good example of what I run into a LOT. The CAC sticker really just isn't the "A..B..C" thing within grades. That's probably mostly applied to mint state coins. If the coin is circulated (usually 19th century material) the CAC is more whether the coin was cleaned or not. Sometimes, like this coin, you can clearly see the hairlines. On others it isn't so obvious.

 

CAC does a pretty good job with this. However, even if a coin was cleaned at some point it is still worth something...in fact you may still like the coin a lot (I've got several in that category). It just isn't "CAC worthy" or whatever and might not be worth a premium. It depends....

 

jom

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