What do I have here...

[jmj3esq]

I bought this on ebay pretty cheap. Its an early David Hall Numismatic Group flip but I have never seen one like it. I'm thinking its an earlier flip than the blue David Hall flips you see from time to time. I'm guessing this because the seal does not say David Hall, its just a straight seal with no lettering. The Franklin is in a cointain like his other blue flips. Any help?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Maybe Conder101 will chime in.

 

Chris

[BillJones]

Condor is the best one to answer this, but I remember that David Hall ran a grading service before PCGS came into being. It has the reputation that the grading was very conservative, and I think that these holders can bring premium prices in certain circles.

 

The only thing that would concern me about this holder for long term storeage is the PVC issue. The coin was heat sealed in that flip, and I don't think that that Safety Flips can be sealed like that. I could be wrong on that count, but I used to know a dealer who used that system for the coins that he auctioned, and I know his coins were sealed in PCV holders.

[RWB]

If there is no sign of PVC damage on the coin, then the plastic Cointains holder has done it's job. Leave it as-is....the packaging and coin are likely worth more than the coin alone.

[coinman_23885]

This is David Hall's pre-PCGS operation. There are collectors that will pay a premium for them or at least there were a couple of years ago when the topic was discussed on the PCGS forums. Do not remove the coins from the flips.

[MarkFeld]

Condor is the best one to answer this, but I remember that David Hall ran a grading service before PCGS came into being. It has the reputation that the grading was very conservative, and I think that these holders can bring premium prices in certain circles.

 

The only thing that would concern me about this holder for long term storeage is the PVC issue. The coin was heat sealed in that flip, and I don't think that that Safety Flips can be sealed like that. I could be wrong on that count, but I used to know a dealer who used that system for the coins that he auctioned, and I know his coins were sealed in PCV holders.

 

I worked as a buyer for David Hall before and during the time he started PCGS. He did not run a grading service before PCGS. However, he generally bought very nice coins and offered them for sale, sealed in plastic flips, some of which were the type of the one in this thread. He also usually made a market in the coins he sold - if a coin was still sealed in the plastic flip, it would be eligible for an offer at his current bid price.

[jmj3esq]

Thanks for the help. I was aware of his Numismatic Group flips, but every one I have seen before was a blue colored flip insert and the heat seal had "David Hall" impressed into it. I'm wondering when this flip may have been used.

 

I got this one cheap. Under $50. Close to the price of a 1957 Gem Proof

Franklin.

 

The coin looks perfect in the cointain. I don't think there is anything (PVC) to worry about when the coin is in a cointain, then placed in a PVC containing flip. I'm guessing this coin has been in this flip since the mid 1980's .

[AHFreak]

FWIW- speaking of conservative grading on these early David Hall graded coins ... I bought a 1964 Accent Hair Kennedy in one of the pre-PCGS flips like this, and the grade was exactly as yours is, a Mint State 65. Well I cracked, or cut it out and sent it to grade, knowing it was at least a 67 and Cameo to boot. Just got coin back last week... It graded 67Cameo. So in this case the grading was very conservative.

 

 

[RWB]

AH -- I'd probably counter that the original grading was accurate, and the "new" grade is inflated.

[coinman_23885]

FWIW- speaking of conservative grading on these early David Hall graded coins ... I bought a 1964 Accent Hair Kennedy in one of the pre-PCGS flips like this, and the grade was exactly as yours is, a Mint State 65. Well I cracked, or cut it out and sent it to grade, knowing it was at least a 67 and Cameo to boot. Just got coin back last week... It graded 67Cameo. So in this case the grading was very conservative.

 

 

I'm not sure if it is an issue of being conservative or whether the grade of MS67 even exited then. At one point, I think there was only MS60, MS65, and MS70 (based on Sheldon), but then that was expanded to include MS63 and MS67 (and ultimately expanded to the full 11 point scale we have today in the 1980s).