Bill in Congress REQUIRES Secty of the Treasury to issue Palladium bullion coin

[CaptHenway]

There has been talk about H.R. 1698, and the fact that it allows the government to change the fineness of existing .900 fine silver coins to a higher fineness. Some reports have it promoting .910 fine silver, but it does not actually say that. It just allows a higher but undefined fineness. Some reports say that it makes a Palladium bullion coin more possible and/or more likely.

 

However, in reading through the bill and plugging the proposed changes into the existing U.S. code, I see that it REQUIRES the Secretary of the Treasury to strike said Palladium coin.

 

Here is the existing U.S. Code on the Palladium bullion coin:

 

(v) Palladium Bullion Investment Coins. -

(1) In general. - Subject to the submission to the Secretary and the Congress of a marketing study described in paragraph (8), beginning not more than 1 year after the submission of the study to the Secretary and the Congress, the Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand.

(2) Source of bullion. -

(A) In general. - The Secretary shall acquire bullion for the palladium coins issued under this subsection by purchase of palladium mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined. If no such palladium is available or if it is not economically feasible to obtain such palladium, the Secretary may obtain palladium for the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) from other available sources.

 

 

There is more, but these two paragraphs contain the important changes, which if you plug in the changes will read like this:

 

(v) Palladium Bullion Investment Coins. -

(1) In general. - The Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand.

(2) Source of bullion. -

(A) In general. – To the greatest extent possible, the Secretary shall acquire bullion for the palladium coins issued under this subsection by purchase of palladium mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within 1 year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined. If no such palladium is available or if it is not economically feasible to obtain such palladium, the Secretary may obtain palladium for the palladium coins described in paragraph (12) of subsection (a) from other available sources.

 

The study results are thrown out, and it would now say "The Secretary shall mint and issue the palladium coins described...." No ifs, ands or buts about it. He has to issue them.

 

There is an additional change in paragraph 5 that says Treasury "may issue collectible versions of..." the coins. Not as big an issue as the fact that the bill mandates the issuance of the coins in the first place.

 

The Bill has passed the House and is in the Senate, which has just returned from the Fourth of July break.

 

TD

 

Edited to add: Paragraph 8 of the current code states:

 

(8) Marketing study defined. - The market study described in paragraph (1) means an analysis of the market for palladium bullion investments conducted by a reputable, independent third party that demonstrates that there would be adequate demand for palladium bullion coins produced by the United States Mint to ensure that such coins could be minted and issued at no net cost to taxpayers.

 

H.R. 1698 strikes out Paragraph 8 completely, allowing the program to operate at a net cost to taxpayers.

[delta]

Many thanks for posting this, I'd personally welcome US Pd bullion coins, even if the enactment was handled in a somewhat surreptitious legislative manner, although in general I despise the often legally corrupt behavior in Congress.

[RWB]

This is the same commercial interest that just wants to make the government buy its palladium. It has been proposed and rejected multiple times.

[Conder101]

(a) in such quantities as the Secretary may determine to be appropriate to meet demand.

Well he CAN decide the appropriate quantity is zero.

[CaptHenway]

The bill passed as a rider to the Transportation Act recently passed and signed into law. The Secty of the Treasury is now mandated to strike a one ounce palladium bullion coin in unlimited quantities.

[RWB]

"if feasible"

 

This is just a boondoggle for a private company. Special interest "law making" at its worst.

[KeyMan64]

Another way for the mint to pump more "material" out the door. Ugh.

[CaptHenway]

The "if feasible" clause has been removed. The Sec. Treas. is REQUIRED to make them whether there is a market for them or not!

[Conder101]

The bad thing is this country doesn't produce that much palladium. (I believe there is only one mine producing palladium in the US and I believe it is owned by a Russian company)

 

This law could easily consume the entire US production (2014 392K oz) requiring all domestic users to have to import all their palladium needs further injuring our trade imbalance. And the only other significant producers of Palladium are Russia and South Africa. Only about 6 million oz of Palladium is produced world wide annually. Palladium is an industrial metal with the automotive, chemical, and electronics industries consuming over 5 million oz annually. To siphon off a big chunk of the already short supply for bullion coins is stupid!

[CaptHenway]

Logic had nothing to do with the bill getting through CONgress.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

http://www.gop.gov/bill/h-r-1698-bullion-and-collectible-coin-production-efficiency-and-cost-savings-act-as-amended/

 

Seems silly and a waste of time to me.

 

Who is responsible for this bill or rider to it?

[RWB]

The Sec of Treasury or the Treasurer (who controls the Mint Bureau) has ways to prevent this useless waste.

 

It is a scam to support one local company. The member of Congress who has proposed this garbage in the past and added the rider is no better than a thief of public money.

[CaptHenway]

http://www.gop.gov/bill/h-r-1698-bullion-and-collectible-coin-production-efficiency-and-cost-savings-act-as-amended/

 

Seems silly and a waste of time to me.

 

Who is responsible for this bill or rider to it?

 

As it says, Rep. Bill Huizenga. He's a from the district in the southwest corner of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan.

[CaptHenway]

I can't say the name of the party Abraham Lincoln belonged to?

[RWB]

Sounds like a Reptilpublican.....responding to local greed and dipping his hands in the public coffers. Long ago there was a test of "germane-ness" for amendments and riders to bills - guess that vanished along with being good stewards of the finances and other things.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Well, republicrat or demicant lets all write him and ask why he put that in there.

 

Maybe the boy has a legitimate reason....I don't see it, but maybe.

 

When I'm on a real pc I'll post a link to email him from and type up a paragraph asking whats up.

[WoodenJefferson]

Well, republicrat or demicant lets all write him and ask why he put that in there.

 

Maybe the boy has a legitimate reason....I don't see it, but maybe.

 

When I'm on a real pc I'll post a link to email him from and type up a paragraph asking whats up.

 

Do you really expect to get a response, one that makes sense anyway from someone asking questions from outside his district?

[dcarr]

The bad thing is this country doesn't produce that much palladium. (I believe there is only one mine producing palladium in the US and I believe it is owned by a Russian company)

 

This law could easily consume the entire US production (2014 392K oz) requiring all domestic users to have to import all their palladium needs further injuring our trade imbalance. And the only other significant producers of Palladium are Russia and South Africa. Only about 6 million oz of Palladium is produced world wide annually. Palladium is an industrial metal with the automotive, chemical, and electronics industries consuming over 5 million oz annually. To siphon off a big chunk of the already short supply for bullion coins is stupid!

 

Then maybe "investing" in some of the coins would be smart ?

 

PS:

Personally I like palladium coins. Minting the stuff is difficult. But I've managed to make a few:

[CaptHenway]

Nice!

 

How much more force does it take to strike compared to silver and gold?

[dcarr]

Nice!

 

How much more force does it take to strike compared to silver and gold?

 

About 50% more than silver or gold would require.

The hardest part, though, is re-melting the leftover webbing after punching out blanks.

[coinman_23885]

Personally I like palladium coins. Minting the stuff is difficult. But I've managed to make a few:

 

I hope they use your designs as opposed to some of the horrendous stuff they churn out these days. I also hope they get rid of the "rattleskin" laser etched cameo effect on the proof versions.

[physics-fan3.14]

I also hope they get rid of the "rattleskin" laser etched cameo effect on the proof versions.

 

Wouldn't that be nice.

[CaptHenway]

Nice!

 

How much more force does it take to strike compared to silver and gold?

 

About 50% more than silver or gold would require.

The hardest part, though, is re-melting the leftover webbing after punching out blanks.

 

Ah yes. Not a big issue when you are making millions of blanks like the Mint used to, but quite a pain in small scale.

 

I remember reading an article about the very early mint when they tried to return each depositors exact same gold or silver to him in coin form. After the original assaying and any necessary re-alloying up or down, they would cast a few bars, roll them down, punch out lets say 500 blanks, and remelt and recast the webbing.

 

The webbing rolled out and blanked that might produce 200 blanks. The new webbing melted, cast, rolled out and blanked might produce 60 blanks. The new webbing melted, cast rolled out and blanked might produce 20 blanks, and so on and so on till the last bar produced just one blank. Made so much more sense to co-mingle deposits and make blanks in bulk.

 

Have you ever considered casting blanks for your short runs and just filing or polishing them down to weight?

 

 

[dcarr]

Nice!

 

How much more force does it take to strike compared to silver and gold?

 

About 50% more than silver or gold would require.

The hardest part, though, is re-melting the leftover webbing after punching out blanks.

 

Ah yes. Not a big issue when you are making millions of blanks like the Mint used to, but quite a pain in small scale.

 

I remember reading an article about the very early mint when they tried to return each depositors exact same gold or silver to him in coin form. After the original assaying and any necessary re-alloying up or down, they would cast a few bars, roll them down, punch out lets say 500 blanks, and remelt and recast the webbing.

 

The webbing rolled out and blanked that might produce 200 blanks. The new webbing melted, cast, rolled out and blanked might produce 60 blanks. The new webbing melted, cast rolled out and blanked might produce 20 blanks, and so on and so on till the last bar produced just one blank. Made so much more sense to co-mingle deposits and make blanks in bulk.

 

Have you ever considered casting blanks for your short runs and just filing or polishing them down to weight?

 

 

Even if cast, there is always sprue left. Something has to be done with that, just like webbing. The traditional rolling process is the most accurate method for controlling thickness. So I prefer to roll and punch my own gold blanks.