USAuPzlBxBob Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) When I attended college many years ago, there were a few times when I got swamped with the coursework and fell behind in a couple of classes. Before I knew it I was in over my head and just wished that I could have a reset. One course in particular, Heat Transfer, if memory serves correct, I waited too long, was unable to drop it, and I got a D. A year or so later, I retook the course, and having had that initial exposure to it, on the second time around, I not only aced the course, I was the best student in the class. Such is the case with collecting the QE 1834 — 1933 US Gold Type Set. It’s almost like you have to take your first crack at it, learn what you should have done instead, and then, either start anew, or repair what you have done through buying and selling. I’ve heard it said by some on this forum that they have no interest whatsoever in US gold coins; they just don't see the appeal. I can see their point to some extent. Gold coins do not tone beautifully like silver coins, the US designs are lacking in portrait beauty, and most of the gold coins — the ones you really want — cost an arm and a leg to acquire, especially in high grade. But for me at least, what I perceive as the appeal of collecting the 100 year collection is the challenge of collecting the quintessential type set. If asked, many collectors of the 100 year type set would be hard pressed to describe what the quintessential type set would be. They’d cite the 21 coin collection, and dither on a few “key date” coins, probably make mention of the Saint-Gaudens High Relief, and other than that, they’d say collect what appeals to you, buy coins you like. But there is an 1834 — 1933 quintessential US Gold Type Set, and what is more, it is an “everyday man” type set in that it is reasonably affordable, affordable for gold that is, and surprise, surprise, it is not 21 coins. The Quintessential Existential 1834 — 1933 14 Coin US Gold Business Strike Type Set This is an extremely compelling US Gold type set. More than just 14 different US Gold coins that represent the business strike coin designs of the 100 years prior to the 1933 gold confiscation, together they represent an extremely fine focus on careful and deliberate coin acquisition, rewarding the collector with a minimalist gold coin collection that is hard to beat. Extremely challenging to undertake, let alone complete, it is surprising nonetheless that many collectors may have never considered it before in logical detail. This may be because its contents, although at first glance appearing commonplace and mundane, in actuality will have had to have been deftly selected from all of the various US Mints, with the understanding that its completion goals are derived from their subtly constrained limited years of particular denomination output. If you are already a collector of any 100 year, pre-1933 US Gold type set, you will appreciate how this hypothetical coin collection pans out with unique and symmetrical beauty, especially when viewed while keeping in mind the dramatic “long ago gone by” time period of US History that it is cast against. When amassed together, and each coin’s attributes are weighed against those of other prevailing coins, the end result is a collection that shines by virtue of strength and breadth, coupled with ingenious coherence and simplicity. Collection Goals 14 US Gold Business Strike Coins, 1834 — 1933 Classic Head: $2.5, $5 Gold Dollars: Types 1, 2, & 3 (Liberty Head, Indian Princess Head (Small), & Indian Princess Head (Large), respectively) Liberty Head: $2.5, $5, $10, $20 Three-Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head Indian Head: $2.5, $5, $10 Saint-Gaudens: $20 At least one coin from each of the 7 mints At least one coin from each of the 11 decades No two coin dates alike Symmetry, coherence, strength, and beauty; all tastefully combined $100K — $300K to acquire Overview The collection’s quintessential aspect will be revealed by: Affordability Symmetry Coherence The collection’s existential aspect will be most affected by: 14 entirely different coins (portrait design, size, denomination) At least one coin from each of the 7 mints At least one coin from each of the 11 decades Not all of the mints are inclusive to all of the decades Not all of the coin designs are inclusive to all of the decades Not all of the mints are inclusive to all of the coin designs Several of the coins are seldom available Let’s begin.Collection Construction Due to the least number of coins aspect of this collection, and the intertwined constraints of decades, mints, types, and denominations, two questions need to be asked: Is this collection even possible, given all of the imposed constraints? Can it be done in a way that makes it obviously much better than any other way? The answer, identical to both of these questions, is a resounding Yes! To help answer these questions, pre-existing simplifications need to be applied to obviate the remaining, most inherently difficult, crux portions of the collection. For the 14 coins and 11 decades involved, 3 coins of flexibility are available. However, we know that two coins, the $2.5 and $5 Classic Heads, reside solely in the 1830s decade. Classic Head $2.5 P 1834 - 1839 C 1838 - 1839 D 1839 O 1839 $5 P 1834 - 1838 C 1838 D 1838 This reduces the remaining collection “fit” problem to 12 coins in 10 decades, and no more than 3 coins in any single decade. The important thing here is you can have 3 coins in one of the remaining decades as long as the fit of the other 9 coins is one coin per decade. At the other end of the collection, the 20th century coins, one Saint-Gaudens and 3 different denomination Indian Heads perfectly coincide there; they’re 4 different coins which can be worked into the 4 decades (00, 10, 20, 30), with at least one of the coins satisfying the Denver Mint requirement. Indian Head $2.5 P 1908 - 1915, 1926 - 1929 D 1911, 1914, 1925 $5 P 1908 - 1915, 1929 D 1908 - 1911, 1914 O 1909 S 1908 - 1916 $10 P 1907 - 1915, 1926, 1932 - 1933 D 1908 - 1911, 1914 S 1908 - 1916, 1920, 1930 Saint-Gaudens $20 P 1907 - 1915, 1920 - 1929, 1931 - 1933 D 1908 - 1911, 1913 - 1914, 1923 - 1927, 1931 S 1908 - 1911, 1913 - 1916, 1920, 1922, 1924 - 1927, 1930 When these 4 coins are also brought to bear on the “fit” problem, the final 8 remaining coins need to fit in 6 decades. Let’s first apply known pre-existing simplifications, to the extent possible at this beginning juncture, to help obviate later coin selections. Consider the construction logic of the collection for the difficult 1930s decade. One coin is needed here, but only two types of coins are available: the $10 Indian Head and the $20 Saint-Gaudens. Both of these are large, spectacular coins, and you want whichever one you choose for this decade to be of high grade because it is your only chance at either one of the coin types that the two represent. Rarity and cost can help us here, to make up our minds on which coin type to use in the 1930s. Ideally, the $20 Saint-Gaudens should go in the 1930s decade because it is a standalone coin design, and also because its extremely large size would serve as a capstone for the entire collection. However, the same may be said of the $10 Indian Head, which is also a standalone coin design, and a fairly large coin, too. However, when you compare high grade $20 Saint-Gaudens of earlier years, price wise, against high grade 1930s issued $20 Saint-Gaudens, it immediately becomes obvious that you would quickly break the bank if you went with a high grade $20 Saint-Gaudens in the 1930s decade. This then leaves only the $10 Indian Head to take care of the 1930s decade. For me, every time I want to size up whether someone else has thought of a quintessential 11 Decade, 7 Mint, 14 Coin, US Gold 1834 — 1933 type set, the first coin I look for is the $10 1932 Indian Head in their collection. Without it, most collectors cannot afford any alternative coin, and because of this they will never fulfill the 11 decade mandate. The 1932 Philadelphia $10 Indian Head is an angel sent from type set heaven because it, and it alone, can be done inexpensively in very high grade for around $2K to $4K. One coin down, 13 to go. (Note: It is ironic, from the very start, that the “Hundred Year US Gold” collection is immediately cut off at the knees in that it, at most, can only hope to be ninety nine years. But such is history, and confiscation of $10 Indian Heads in 1933, for melting, forever precludes the possibility of the common man attaining the full 100-year-span collection, due to affordability.) Returning to the 1830s decade list, where the two Classic Head coins reside, technically there are several mints and years that could avail themselves to the start of the collection: Classic Head $2.5 P 1834. - 1839 C 1838 - 1839 D 1839 O 1839 $5 P 1834 - 1838 C 1838 D 1838 Of these available coins, only an 1834 $5 Classic Head will suffice to begin the collection, and this is the case for the following reasons: The span of the collection will be maximized to 99 years 1834 provides a first year of issue of any Classic Head The collection's symmetry can be further enhanced by following up with a last year of issue 1839 $2.5 Classic Head Bookending the entire span of Classic Head years, providing first and last year of issue If the $2.5 Classic Head were to fill in for the 1834 year, then the 1838 $5 Classic Head would fall one year short of the six year Classic Head span The precedence of higher denomination coin type followed by smaller denomination coin type is established Which will add coherence to coin selection of later decades The overall entire collection is bookended as Philadelphia to Philadelphia And lastly, the entire collection avoids starting with a smallish $2.5 coin Clearly, the small 1834 $2.5 Classic Head is not the way to begin a quintessential 100 year collection The Gold Dollars and Classic Heads Tie-In I’ve often marveled at the flexibility of this 14 coin collection in that 14 coins just make everything work out the way it can, but what follows is a fortuitous and unique outcome. The 3 smallest coins of the collection — the Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 Gold Dollars — can all be nested close together within the 1850s decade to lend the impression that their combined masses afford them a sort of “E PLURIBUS UNUM,” larger, single coin quality. Taking things a bit further, in a quintessential way of course, the Gold Dollars, in and of themselves very small coins, need to have extra interest added to them for them to compete in any way with the much larger denomination coins, and this is accomplished by requiring that they each bear a mint mark. Moreover, to take things one step further, we will include a mint mark on the only other small coin mentioned thus far: the $2.5 Classic Head. The reason for choosing a mint mark on the $2.5 Classic Head is because branch mint marks for all Classic Heads occur on the obverse side, a unique peculiarity for this coin type. Furthermore, knowing that the 1839 $2.5 Classic Head will bear an obverse mint mark, the only 1834 $5 Classic Head worthy of complimenting it is the 1834 $5 Crosslet 4 Classic Head, which has its crosslet 4 also displayed on the obverse side. So, for the Classic Heads, we have an 1834 $5 Crosslet 4 (first year of issue) and an 1839-? $2.5 (last year of issue). The actual mint for the 1839 $2.5 Classic Head cannot be decided at this point in time because it depends on what mints the Gold Dollars will have. (None of the mint marks on these small coins will ever show up again in the collection because by doing so, the mint marks on these small coins would be cheapened.) So far, this hypothetical collection is now only two known coins — a first year of issue 1834 $5 Crosslet 4 Classic Head and a solid, large, beautiful 1932 $10 Indian Head — and involves one mint, two decades, and spans 99 years. Overall, it’s an excellent beginning in terms of forced decisions and strong coin choice. But things get very tricky and complicated from here on. The Gold Dollars are next: Types 1, 2, and 3. And don’t forget, we still have to return to the 1830s decade one more time, to decide which branch mint the $2.5 Classic Head will be from. Let’s be sure that things can all still fit with regard to the Gold Dollars all fitting in the single 1850s decade. Let’s count it down to be sure, taking into account the other 6 coins and 5 decades already considered. (8 coins and 6 decades remain) A Type 1 Gold Dollar is placed in the 1850s; 7 coins and 5 decades remain. A Type 2 Gold Dollar is added to the 1850s; 6 coins and 5 decades remain. A Type 3 Gold Dollar is added to the 1850s; 5 coins and 5 decades remain. Everything just fits and the 1850s decade belongs to all 3 types of Gold Dollars, provided there are no unexpected "fit" constraints yet to come. One more thing. An additional constraint will be added for the Gold Dollars: they must be symmetrically arranged relative to each other; equally spaced apart. Before delving fully into the Gold Dollars construct, the question of whether they should all be targeted in the 1850s needs to be addressed just a little more. To decide this outcome of all Gold Dollars residing in the 1850s, the Liberty Heads and Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head weigh upon things, and Carson City plays heavily upon everything. It is fascinating, the interrelationships of how each coin selection plays havoc on other coin selections. The Non-Intrusive Liberty Heads and Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head Tie-In Carson City does not come into the picture until 1870. It presents an important limitation to the collection’s coherence and symmetry because it is only available as a Liberty Head coin. If 4 Liberty Heads are attempted in succession — as $20, $10, $5, and $2.5, similar to the descending order of the Classic Heads — they would have to begin in the 1860s and end in the 1890s. Knowing that the Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head did not begin until the 1850s leaves no coin to fill in for the 1840s since the Gold Dollars are to reside solely in the 1850s. However, Carson City never coined a $2.5 Liberty Head. This means that when Carson City begins its Liberty Head run in the 1870s and stretches its entire three decade span as an 1870s $20, an 1880s $10, and an 1890s $5, from there it has nothing else to offer. Therefore, a $2.5 Liberty Head can be placed in the 1840s decade — from the Philadelphia Mint, to afford the highest grade and not intrude on Charlotte, Dahlonega, New Orleans, and San Francisco, which are already earmarked for the 1839 $2.5 Classic Head and the 1850s decade Gold Dollars — and the Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head can be placed in the 1860s decade. Everything fits and makes perfect sense. It cannot be overstated how fortuitous it is to be able to get this ideal fit of decades and mints from sparsely available coin types and denominations. It really is miraculous. Carson City deserves a little further mention. By going all Carson City with its three large coins, as a late 19th century Liberty Head run, another mint mark is garnered on a smallest coin from an available branch mint, in this case the large $5 "small" coin. Since Carson City's mint mark is actually two letters together, the overall collection gets completely loaded up with mint marks. (The "CC" mintmark actually is pretty cool because it lends the impression that the eagle on the reverse side has extended talons.) By going in this direction, a minimum of 11 mintmark letters are guaranteed when all of the collection's coins are taken together. And finally, there is some sort of status symbolism attached to Carson City gold. It has an Old Wild West notorious image of Nevada saloons and cathouses, whiskey drinking, gambling and card swindling, and “shoot ‘em up” gun slinging. “It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key.” With all of this difficulty now decided, we once again return to the 1839-? $2.5 Classic Head and the 1850s Gold Dollars problem. There are 24 symmetrical combinations and permutations of 1850s mintmark bearing Gold Dollars that exist in conjunction with a mintmark on an 1839 $2.5 Classic Head, with none of the mint marks ever being repeated again. Remember too, the Gold Dollars all have to be equally spaced apart, but placed ideally as close together as possible. The NGC Coin Explorer will be used to provide what each of these permutation combinations would cost if all were done in AU58. 1851-C 1851-C 1851-D 1851-D 1851-O 1851-O 1855-D 1855-O 1855-C 1855-O 1855-C 1855-D 1859-S 1859-S 1859-S 1859-S 1859-S 1859-S1839-O 1839-D 1839-O 1839-C 1839-D 1839-C$49850 $30650 $37150 $29200 $42425 $54425 1852-C 1852-C 1852-D 1852-D 1852-O 1852-O 1855-D 1855-O 1855-C 1855-O 1855-C 1855-D 1858-S 1858-S 1858-S 1858-S 1858-S 1858-S1839-O 1839-D 1839-O 1839-C 1839-D 1839-C$49950 $31500 $38450 $30500 $44200 $54700 The 1856-S cannot be used for the Type 2 in conjunction with an 1851 or 1852 Type 1 because symmetry spacing would require a non-1850s Type 3 Gold Dollar. 1853-C 1853-C 1853-D 1853-D 1853-O 1855-D 1855-O 1855-C 1855-O 1855-C 1857-S 1857-S 1857-S 1857-S 1857-S1839-O 1839-D 1839-O 1839-C 1839-D$50750 $32300 $39200 $31250 $44650 1853-O 1853-C 1853-D 1853-O 1853-O 1855-D 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1857-S 1859-D 1859-C 1859-C 1859-D1839-C 1839-O 1839-O 1839-D 1839-C$55150 $24000 $27700 $33150 $28400 1854-C 1854-C 1854-D 1854-D 1854-O 1854-O 1855-D 1855-O 1855-C 1855-O 1855-C 1855-D 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S1839-O 1839-D 1839-O 1839-C 1839-D 1839-C DOA DOA DOA DOA DOA DOA Above DOAs because all 1856-S are Type 2, not Type 3. (included just for completeness) 1854-S 1854-S 1854-S 1854-S 1854-S 1854-S 1855-C 1855-C 1855-D 1855-D 1855-O 1855-O 1856-D 1856-O 1856-C 1856-O 1856-C 1856-D1839-O 1839-D 1839-O 1839-C 1839-D 1839-C$48750 DOA DOA DOA DOA $40800 Above DOAs because 1855-O was the last year for New Orleans Gold Dollars, and 1856-C does not exist. 1854-C 1854-C 1854-D 1854-D 1854-O 1854-O 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1856-S 1858-D 1858-O 1858-C 1858-O 1858-C 1858-D1839-O 1839-D 1839-O 1839-C 1839-D 1839-C DOA DOA DOA DOA DOA DOA Above DOAs because 1854-C, 1854-O, 1858-C, and 1858-O all do not exist. The price range for these various AU58 permutations is from $24,000 to $55,150. (June 2015; NGC US Coin Price Guide) One of the best ones for the quintessential type set is the $40,800 one. It features an 1839-C $2.5 Classic Head, and the “C” really looks nice on this coin, better than an “O” or a “D” (in my humble opinion), a first year of issue San Francisco Gold Dollar (let alone first year of anything gold from the San Francisco Mint), a last year of any type New Orleans Gold Dollar, and all three coins are as tightly nested together as possible. (a stunning permutation) When collecting these Gold Dollars, if you have none to begin with, it is recommended that you seek out either the 1855-O or the 1855-C first. With either secured, there are numerous, highly appealing, permutations available. The San Francisco Gold Dollar requirement is difficult to come by, and may take some time. Persevere. We now have to fill in a little. In the 1840’s, since we’ve spent over our heads on so many little coins thus far, we go for a high quality, fairly common, “smack dab in the middle” of the decade, Philadelphia 1845 $2.5 Liberty Head, which can be had relatively inexpensively, and in the 1860s, we need a Civil War Philadelphia Three Dollar Gold. These Civil War coins are extremely hard to come by. The easiest, if you can call it that, would be 1863. After the 1860s, the collection has smooth sailing until the Twentieth Century. 1876-CC $20 Liberty Head 1884-CC $10 Liberty Head 1892-CC $5 Liberty Head Correct order of denomination, for coherence, and a nice downward stair stepping of the years within the decades. The $5 Carson City is the smallest denomination gold coin bearing a CC mint mark. Again, Carson City never offered a $2.5 Liberty, which is why the 1845 $2.5 Philadelphia Liberty Head works so well. We'll skip the Saint-Gaudens just for a minute, here, and go right to the pair of similar Indian Head designs. 1910s $5 Indian Head 1920s $2.5 Indian Head For these two coins, a Denver Mint is needed on at least one of them, if not both, because the lone Saint-Gaudens is to be a High Relief, which was not offered by Denver. By going with both of them as Denver, they both receive an interesting mint mark and they avoid any other mint mark already in play. (like San Francisco, already on a Gold Dollar) Moreover, if you feel rich, doubtful at this point having spent so much already, you could acquire a key date 1911-D $5 Indian Head. If you don’t feel rich, most likely the case, the 1914-D $5 Indian Head will be just fine. To compliment it, and place yet another mint mark on a smallest denomination “type” coin, the 1925-D $2.5 Indian Head is the only Denver coin in the 1920’s decade. And now we come to the last coin in the collection, the $20 Saint-Gaudens. Go for the 1907 High Relief, spending as much as you can afford. Below, please find an “actual years” collection example, to clearly show how this hypothetical collection might appear, replete with NGC (June 2015) current prices, which should be taken with a grain of salt since they seem somewhat on the high side. 1834 $5 Classic Head Crosslet 4 AU58 $18,250 1839-C $2.5 Classic Head AU58 $17,000 1845 $2.5 Liberty Head MS62 $ 2,950 1854-S G$1 Type 1 AU58 $ 2,000 1855-O G$1 Type 2 AU58 $ 5,300 1856-D G$1 Type 3 AU58 $16,500 1863 $3 Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head AU58 $ 6,750 1876-CC $20 Liberty Head MS60 $14,500 1884-CC $10 Liberty Head AU58 $ 8,000 1892-CC $5 Liberty Head MS61 $ 3,250 1907 $20 St. Gaudens HR MS61 $20,000 1914-D $5 Indian Head MS64 $ 6,000 1925-D $2.5 Indian Head MS65 $ 1,800 1932 $10 Indian Head MS64 $ 1,425 Total $123,725 This would be a killer “custom” type set collection, and in actuality, probably cost $100K. (but maybe more, depends on how much of a rush you’re in) This collection affords the following: 14 US Gold Coins, covering the period of the last 100 years of pre-1933 gold In combined mint stature, the collection is: Philadelphia; 5 coins, $40.50 Carson City; 3 coins, $35.00 These 3 coins contribute two mint marks apiece, allowing the whole collection to bear 12 mint mark letters (and a crosslet 4 on one Philly) Denver; 2 coins, $7.50 Charlotte; 1 coin, $2.50 Dahlonega; 1 coin, $1.00 New Orleans; 1 coin, $1.00 San Francisco; 1 coin, $1.00 Total Legal Tender Value: $88.50 No two coins alike, every major design portrait included At least one coin from each of the 7 mints At least one coin in each of the 11 decades No two dates alike For same mint, similar-design type coins, large denomination always precedes small denomination Philadelphia Mint bookend-coins cradle the overall collection, as well they should Classic Head coins, $5 and $2.5 together, pair as bookends, first and last years of issue A rare Crosslet 4 Classic Head anchors the collection A seldom seen obverse mint mark is displayed on the small $2.5 Classic Head Sole examples of branch mint marks occur on the smallest coins, to give them added interest All Gold Dollars are placed together within the 1850s, symmetrically situated around the 1855 Type 2 The mint marks seen on the three Gold Dollars are not repeated elsewhere, giving them heightened importance; small yet very important The last year of issue New Orleans Gold Dollar is represented A Civil War Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head pays homage to that historic war Carson City dominates the Old Wild West A High Relief $20 Saint-Gaudens, in an affordable, reasonably high, respectable grade is included MS64 or better Indian Heads close out the collection Total Estimated Value: around $100K. If you wanted to lay the coins out to look at them, using an “8” as a placeholder for illustration to suggest an NGC holder, they would look like this: 8888888888888888888888 First column is Thirties Classic Heads Second column is a Forties lone Philly $2.5 Liberty Head Third column has all three Gold Dollars for the Fifties Fourth column is a Sixties lone Philly Civil War Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head Fifth column is the three Carson City Liberty Heads; Seventies, Eighties, and Nineties Sixth column is the stand out, singular, Philly $20 Saint-Gaudens High Relief for the Double-Aught Decade Seventh column is the Denver same design Indian Heads; for the Teens and Twenties And the eighth column is the large Philly $10 Indian Head capstone for the Nineteen Thirties. The whole tableau looks like an arrow pointing to the right, as though the collection has direction and purpose. And there you have it, The Quintessential Existential 1834 — 1933 14 Coin US Gold Business Strike Type Set. Edited April 23, 2018 by USAuPzlBxBob Transition to "New Boards" ruined original version formatting. Currently editing this "work-in-progress" thread. (after much work, now done) GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Colonial Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Nice write up and by someone who writes longer posts than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Intreresting and compelling set. Wish I thought of it. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Personally, I will never collect the Quintessential Existential Hundred Year US Gold Type Set. I've come as close as I can, and you get attached to some of the coins that you own. For example, my Carson City $10 Liberty is a stunning 1881 AU53, and is the first coin I ever bought. I almost traded it recently for an 1884-CC $10 AU58. But when I took a photo of it, to show the buyer, the 1881-CC $10 Liberty revealed itself as the most beautiful coin I have. I paid a premium for it, and had forgotten why I paid so much. It's an AU53 Gem! No question about it. But, by revealing that there is a QE Hundred Year US Gold Type Set, someone just starting out may come across this thread, and suddenly have clarity of what to collect, and really nail it down over their lifetime. That's my hope, anyway. I'll be curious to see if dealers start raising prices on the coins that would make up this set. I had always wondered about how certain obscure coins are desirable, and this QE collection made me aware of why some people have an acute need to acquire certain coins. A real insight into coin acquisition and what goes on in making a collection coherent from the standpoint of where you are, and the expensive repairs required to get where you want to be. Edited February 26, 2018 by USAuPzlBxBob Post detailed formatting problems of old boards, which are now corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Have reviewed everything over the last few months, and made a few changes. The following would be extremely challenging and probably cost $200k in today’s dollars. This compelling gold type set would be an incredible lifetime achievement collection that would uniquely represent the hundred year time period that it spans. The Quintessential Existential Hundred Year 14 Coin US Gold Business Strike Type Set 1830s Classic Head 1834 $5 Crosslet 4 Classic Head first year issue 10x more rare than plain 4 1839-O $2.5 Classic Head last year issue “Stand Alone” New Orleans Classic Head collectable New Orleans Mint first year gold Collection coherence attributes 1830s decade satisfied Pairing of Classic Head obverse peculiarities Crosslet 4, mint mark Date “type” sequence established Similar-design large denomination coin predates small denomination coin Intriguing minor-coin branch-mint-mark focus Collection’s sole New Orleans coin 1840s Liberty Head 1848 “CAL.” $2.5 Sole minor Philadelphia coin of collection bears intriguing reverse punch Most likely the collection’s most prized collectable Collection coherence attributes Coincidental sole happenstance coin-type satisfies 1840s decade requirement Compliments Carson City Liberty Head coin sequence of later decades Carson City never minted a $2.5 Liberty Head Gold Dollars earmarked for 1850s decade Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head unavailable in 1840s US historic importance Sutter’s Mill gold California Gold Rush 1850s Gold Dollars 1854-S, Type 1 1855-C, Type 2 1856-D, Type 3 Collection coherence attributes Gold Dollars satisfy 1850s decade E PLURIBUS UNUM heightened aspect because dates are adjacent Tightest-possible nesting-together of all three minor coins Minor-coin intriguing branch-mint-mark focus continuation Collection’s sole coins for each of these branch mints San Francisco, Charlotte, Dahlonega "Stand Alone” San Francisco Gold Dollar Type 1 collectable San Francisco first year gold "Stand Alone” Charlotte Gold Dollar Type 2 collectable 1860s Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head 1863 $3 Collection coherence attributes 1860s decade satisfied US historic importance Civil War Battle of Gettysburg 1870s, 1880s, 1890s Liberty Head 1876-CC $20 1881-CC $10 1893-CC $5 Collection coherence attributes Each decade satisfied Affordable Carson City coins for chosen dates Enables high grade capability Continuation of “type” sequence Similar-design large denomination coins predate small denomination coins Yet another smallest coin from a branch mint bears an intriguing mint mark Carson City Mint marks abound in collection because of Carson City “CC” US historic importance 1876 Declaration of Independence Centennial Alexander Graham Bell telephone “Mr. Watson, come here!” Battle of Little Bighorn (“Custer’s Last Stand”) US 7th Cavalry Regiment massacred Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer killed Lakota, Cheyenne, Arapaho Indians Sitting Bull Crazy Horse Wild Bill Hickok murdered during poker game Deadwood, South Dakota Anheuser-Busch introduces pasteurized light lager beer Budweiser 1881 James A. Garfield, newly elected 20th POTUS, assassinated Dies from infection of wounds two and one half months after shooting Shoot out at the OK Corral Tombstone, Arizona Henry McCarty (“Billy the Kid”) notoriety and death New Mexico 1893 Last year of Carson City mintage 1900s Saint-Gaudens 1907 $20 High Relief Collection coherence attributes 1900s decade satisfied Saint-Gaudens first year issue Roman numerals date 1910s, 1920s Indian Head 1911-D $5 1925-D $2.5 Collection coherence attributes Each decade satisfied All 7 mints finalized Denver “Key” coin of $5 Indian Heads Intriguing minor-coin branch-mint-mark focus finalization Sole Denver minor coin of 1920s decade Finalization of “type” sequence Similar-design large denomination coin predates small denomination coin Type sequence trend with minor-coin branch-mint-mark coherence Survives last collection pitfall 1930s Indian Head 1932 $10 Extremely affordable in high grade Collection coherence attributes 1930s decade satisfied All 11 decades finalized Philadelphia Mint bookends entire collection First and last coins US historic importance US gold confiscation one year later Edited April 20, 2018 by USAuPzlBxBob Working on it. Very difficult. (now done) GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonerGuy Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 This should be an article or articles somewhere... Very well written and thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Crazy interesting! mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler N. Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Insanely cool! I don't know how I missed that when it was originally posted. That needs to be published somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Over the last year, upon cursory review, I found a couple of glaring deficiencies in the final version of this collection. (as detailed in my last post) After struggling with these deficiencies, putting in up to 100 hours of thought on what might be deemed as the ideal workaround, I finally settled on a final, final collection. Although there still remains a slight weakness in one coin, shared by both a "U" and a "5" (Can you guess the coin?), there are, however, examples out there that exist without this weakness, though they are few in number. One coin has been substituted into the collection. Can you identify the substitution and correctly guess the two reasons for making it? (It is very puzzling!) The Quintessential Existential Hundred Year 14 Coin US Gold Business Strike Type Set 1830s Classic Head 1834 $5 Crosslet 4 Classic Head first year issue 10x more rare than plain 4 1839-O $2.5 Classic Head last year issue Stand Alone New Orleans Classic Head collectable New Orleans Mint first year gold Collection coherence attributes 1830s decade satisfied Pairing of Classic Head unique obverse peculiarities Crosslet 4, mint mark Date “type sequence" established Similar-design large denomination coin predates small denomination coin Intriguing minor-coin branch-mint-mark focus Collection’s sole New Orleans coin 1840s Liberty Head 1848 “CAL.” $2.5 Sole Philadelphia minor-coin of collection bears intriguing reverse punch Most likely the collection’s most prized collectable Collection coherence attributes 1840s decade satisfied and satisfies $2.5 Liberty Head requirement, never offered from Carson City The crux of the entire collection elegantly solved by this extremely unique coin Allows for the collection's beautifully coherent coin arrangement, despite coin selection from bare minimum coin availability Gold Dollars earmarked solely for 1850s decade, centering around 1855 Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head unavailable in the 1840s, and solely required in the 1860s Carson City spans from 1870 to 1893, and is only offered as three Liberty Head coins ($20, $10, and $5) US historic importance Sutter’s Mill gold California Gold Rush 1850s Gold Dollars 1854-S, Type 1 1855-C, Type 2 1856-D, Type 3 Collection coherence attributes 1850s decade satisfied Stand Alone San Francisco Gold Dollar Type 1 collectable San Francisco Mint first year gold Stand Alone Charlotte Gold Dollar Type 2 collectable Minor-coin intriguing branch-mint-mark focus continuation Collection’s sole coins from each of these branch mints San Francisco, Charlotte, Dahlonega E PLURIBUS UNUM heightened aspect Tightest nesting together of all three minor-coins 1860s Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head 1863 $3 Collection coherence attributes 1860s decade satisfied US historic importance Civil War Battle of Gettysburg 1870s, 1880s, 1890s Liberty Head 1876-CC $20 1881-CC $10 1893-CC $5 Collection coherence attributes 1870s, 1880s, and 1890s decades satisfied Affordable Carson City coins for chosen dates Enables high grade capability Carson City Gold Type Set exists as a subset within overall US Gold Type Set Mint marks abound in collection because of Carson City “CC” Continuation of “type sequence" Similar-design large denomination coins predate small denomination coins Yet another smallest coin from a branch mint bears an intriguing mint mark Carson City US historic importance 1876 Declaration of Independence Centennial Alexander Graham Bell telephone “Mr. Watson, come here!” Battle of Little Bighorn (“Custer’s Last Stand”) US 7th Cavalry Regiment massacred Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer killed Lakota, Cheyenne, Arapaho Indians Sitting Bull Crazy Horse James Butler ("Wild Bill") Hickok murdered during five-card stud poker game; Deadwood, South Dakota Dead man’s hand: two-pair, black aces and black eights Anheuser-Busch introduces pasteurized light lager beer Budweiser 1881 James A. Garfield, newly elected 20th POTUS, assassination Dies from infection of wounds two and one half months after shooting Shoot out at the OK Corral; Tombstone, Arizona Cowboys (outlaws): Billy Claiborne, Ike and Billy Clanton, Tom and Frank McLaury Lawmen: Virgil (Marshall) and Morgan and Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday Henry McCarty (“Billy the Kid”) notoriety and death; New Mexico 1893 Last year of Carson City mintage 1900s Saint-Gaudens 1907 $20 High Relief Collection coherence attributes 1900s decade satisfied Saint-Gaudens first year issue Roman numerals date; MCMVII 1910s, 1920s Indian Head 1910 $5 1925-D $2.5 Collection coherence attributes 1910s and 1920s decades satisfied All 7 mints finalized Finalization of “type sequence" Similar-design large denomination coin predates small denomination coin Intriguing minor-coin branch-mint-mark focus finalization Collection’s sole Denver coin "Type sequence" trend with minor-coin branch-mint-mark coherence maintained Sole Denver minor-coin of 1920s decade enables this All ten Hindu-Arabic numerals finally represented within collection 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 US historic importance 1910 Samuel Langhorne Clemens ("Mark Twain"), author and humorist, death The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Adventures of Huckleberry Finn Winslow Homer, landscape painter, death 1925 F. Scott Fitzgerald publishes The Great Gatsby Scopes Monkey Trial William Jennings Bryan (prosecution), Clarence Darrow (defense) First United States trial to be broadcast on national radio 1930s Indian Head 1932 $10 Collection coherence attributes 1930s decade satisfied All 11 decades finalized Extremely affordable in high grade Philadelphia Mint bookends entire collection First and last coins US historic importance US gold confiscation one year later Edited June 21, 2018 by USAuPzlBxBob Working on it. Just have to proof read everything; couldn't find anything wrong. (done) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Interesting approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Ok, so finally this thread gets resurrected (by me) after a complete editing overhaul, which was needed after NGC transitioned to the New Boards format, a year or so ago. This current post comes just in the nick of time for the simplification of NGC's Chat Boards Structure. (consolidation of some forums; expected June 2018) In the spirit of NGC's simplification nuances, please find, herewith, this Type Set collection presented in its most simple form. (without all of the boilerplate detailed in my previous post) The Quintessential Existential Hundred Year 14 Coin US Gold Business Strike Type Set Classic Head 1834 $5 Crosslet 4 1839-O $2.5 Liberty Head 1848 “CAL.” $2.5 Gold Dollars 1854-S, Type 1 1855-C, Type 2 1856-D, Type 3 Three Dollar Gold Indian Princess Head 1863 $3 Liberty Head 1876-CC $20 1881-CC $10 1893-CC $5 Saint-Gaudens 1907 $20 High Relief Indian Head 1910 $5 1925-D $2.5 Indian Head 1932 $10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Every once in a while I peruse the Internet for the "key" coin of this hypothetical collection. EBay just had one, apparently offered from David Lawrence Rare Coins, and it was a stunning example, and seems to have closed less than a week ago on February 14, 2019 (Valentine's Day): https://www.ebay.com/itm/1848-CAL-2-1-2-PCGS-AU50-2-50-Liberty-Gold-Coin-Old-Green-Label-Holder-/352570909924?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true Really… to die for. So gorgeous! Wish I had unlimited funds… I would have been all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 And here we are… almost a year later… a year of Covid-19, and with thoughts of maybe trying to correct my 100 year gold collection to be more in line with this one, what I'm finding is that coins needed for this collection are scarcely available. For example, just looking around on dealer websites I used to frequent often, I didn't find any 1863 $3 Indian Princess Heads, and the difficult gold dollars, not that they're expensive (or exceedingly rare) seem to have been snatched up into private collections for whatever reasons, and aren't available whatsoever. It is almost like people have been getting more involved with their collections, or more people, with idle time at home, have decided to take up coin collecting. Looks like I'll just leave my current collection as is since it already accomplishes many of the objective this thread details. Thought this thread had disappeared. I would type in it's title, that I had saved elsewhere, put it in quotation marks to narrow the search to exactly the words and capitalization used, and "Found 0 results" would come back. I then went to the US, World, and Ancient Coins forum and started working my way back… one page at a time. Found this thread 44 pages back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Actually, if you were to go after the 1930's Saint-Gaudens, they are mostly in Mint State, high-grade condition. Not many AU's or below. Hence the high prices. Condition and census rarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 hours ago, USAuPzlBxBob said: Thought this thread had disappeared. I would type in it's title, that I had saved elsewhere, put it in quotation marks to narrow the search to exactly the words and capitalization used, and "Found 0 results" would come back. I then went to the US, World, and Ancient Coins forum and started working my way back… one page at a time. Found this thread 44 pages back. Probably would have been easier to go to your profile page and look through the threads you have started. I did, and there were only 19 choices, so you should have been able to find this one right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, Just Bob said: Probably would have been easier to go to your profile page and look through the threads you have started. I did, and there were only 19 choices, so you should have been able to find this one right away. You know, I used to know this, and I just went to my Profile page right now, didn't find anything from the past, but then saw a My Activity button to click, and found the thread on Page 2. I don't post here regularly, so although I knew of this thread, I couldn't find it. I rarely go to my profile page. Good to know how to find the old threads activity. I needed to find the thread because I'm trying to document a Registry Set, and by finding this old thread I'm able to access a lot of information for me to include in the Registry Set documentation. Thanks, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said: Actually, if you were to go after the 1930's Saint-Gaudens, they are mostly in Mint State, high-grade condition. Not many AU's or below. Hence the high prices. Condition and census rarity. Wouldn't work… you spend way too much money. With the $10 1932 Indian Indian Head, the prices are very low for MS 64… and you stretch the collection to 99 years… essentially one hundred years. From my 2013 Official Red Book, 1932 Saint Gaudens, MS 63 grade: $65,000. When I got my $1932 MS 64 $10 Indian Head it cost just $1,500. I had looked into going with a $20 1930's (any 1930's date) originally, until I saw the prohibitive prices for high grade. It was a no brainer to go with $10 Indian Heads. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 I was wondering if this thread was still on the boards. I tried searching for it but it wouldn't show up, so I then went thirteen pages back and checked every page individually from there. Found it an additional 30 pages back! Bump. Might help "would be" collectors who wonder what sort of creative ways may exist for them to form their own unique collections. dovegarden and GoldFinger1969 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
