Some great questions about Jefferson nicks

[Hoot]

I recently got a great email from a fellow board member with some questions on full step Jefferson nickels. Withholding the name and with some slight edits for anonymity, here's my reply to some great questions... My thanks to this board member for having such kindness to contact me. Hoot

 

Have [a bunch of] FS [Jeffersons] to date, and just purchased a 5X magnifying glass to fully enjoy all my coins.

 

This is excellent, as it takes a little maginification to appreciate some of the subtle features of the Jefferson nickel, especially the fullness of Jefferson's hair, including the pony tail, and the fullness of features on Monticello. Monticello is intricately engraved and the step fullness is but one aspect of the completeness of strike. More below.

 

I looked at the steps [on each of my coins] to try and determine whether my coins have 5 or 6 steps. Some appear obvious that there are 5/6 steps. But several looked like a close call to my untrained eye. Also, what sort of "breaks" that may not be obvious to me would I be looking for in the steps?

 

You are probably correct that they are close. Only SEGS makes it clear what some of the details are on a FS Jeff. For example, they will list if the steps have nicks or bridges (attachments of metal from one step to another that interrupts the fully incuse line of the step). Other services gloss over this and are VERY irregular in how they define the feature. NGC shows the greatest consistency. If you have an NGC FS coin, it is six full steps, no exception. Now, that does not mean that a coin that is less than 6 FS is not a FS coin, at least not as tradition defines it. The tradition of identifying full steps (perhaps quite old, but only "officially" since the late 70s) says that the top 5 steps being fully incuse, with no interruptions that fully breach the incuse line of the steps (there are 5 lines in total but 4 on a 5 step nickel) makes for a FS nickel. This was decided upon in recognition of the fact that the sixth step is the weakest feature of the design (it has the highest relief) and it is IMPOSSIBLE to find 6 step nickels for all issues. Impossible. Period. Utterly not possible. Now, there should be no nicks that are distracting in the center of the steps, and even if the steps are still fully incuse and there are distracting marks, the coin may be deemed not FS. I emphasize MAY, as on some days graders will pass these along as FS, and on other days they won't. If you find a FS nickel that has fully incuse steps (5 or 6), then the only way to be sure it will be graded FS by the grading companies is to see that the steps are full (left to right) with no distracting marks or even the tiniest bridge in the steps. Sometimes a grading service will accept tiny nicks and will even accept big nicks either to the left or right of center. (I have a beauty of a 1946-D that is MS66FS PCGS and there is a nick in the left side of the steps so deep that it fully breaches EVERY incuse line. I sent this to PCGS for review. Their current cheif grader (finalizer, whatever) looked at it and deemed it FS. Still! I KNOW that I could crack that coin, resubmit it, and it would NOT be deemed FS, unless it was my lucky day. Oh well, not an expensive coin, but it goes to show that PCGS is fickle. So can be ANACS. They do a real good job for the most part, but they will accept nickels as 5, 5.5, or 6 FS even when there are nicks on the steps.

 

Now, the wobbly steps of 1938 are an exception. They naturally have bridges, but on a FS nickel, there will be a faintly incuse line spanning the bridge. It's a tough case. You will wrestle with it, as do the grading services.

 

I reemphasize: If you find a FS nickel that has fully incuse steps (5 or 6), then the only way to be sure it will be graded FS by the grading companies is to see that the steps are full (left to right) with no distracting marks or even the tiniest bridge in the steps.

 

Is there a "correct" way to position/and or anything else, these coins to be extremely accurate in determing the step count? Some, as I said are very obvious, but what is the correct way to study the steps?

 

The best way to look at the steps is from slightly below them and off to one side a bit. You can twist and turn the coin around a bit, but if you can't see the full steps from the position I describe, it won't get the designation. I prefer a 40 watt incandescent bulb in a reading lamp along with a 6x or 7x loupe - 10x to verify the presence of tiny bridges. I know that graders say a 75 or even 100 watt bulb, but I just can't take the intensity and it throws off my judgment. You'll have to determine this for yourself.

 

Any other info would also be appreciated. Have gone to several web sites to learn more about this series, but there is so much to learn. Started with collecting mostly 64's but found a profound difference in just 1 grade to my 65's. When comparing a 64 to a 65 FS appears to me most of the difference appears in the mint luster.

 

Most of the learning you'll get will be by personal experience. Look also at SEGS coins. Their attributions are excellent. They do not garner nearly the premium of PCGS, NGC, or even ANACS coins. Silly in this case. ICG nearly always overgrades Jeffs by a point. Mint lustre is a biggie with the jump of 64-65-66, but so is strike and the number of nicks on the nickel. You will find your loupe quite useful there.

 

Is it safe to assume that FS Jeff's have a far superior strike than an MS Jeff? Would think the strike has to be exceptional to show the detail in the steps.

 

No it's not safe. Take the 1950-D nickel. It can come struck worse than anything coming or going and can have full steps. FS is only one attribute of a good strike. That's why it's fair to build excellent sets of Jeffs that are not full steps. I simply find the steps appealing, however, I always look at other strike characteristics. In modern Jeffs, I look for prooflike fields.

 

If so, would if be safe say, except for bag marks etc, these are by far superior in strike to even, say an MS66/67/68 plain MS Jeff?

 

Again, no. I have two non-FS Jeffs in my 38-64 registry set - a 1952 and a 52-D. Both are MS67. I found both of them at a local coin shop and paid less than 2 bucks a piece for them. They are simply stunning and I'll be hard pressed to ever find nicer coins, FS or not. The steps are not full, but the strikes are awesome. There is far more to strike than FS. Look at the details of Monticello, especially the faint lines of the doors and window, the steps on the sides of the house, and the definition of the dome. Look at Jeff's hair and the braid to the tie, as well as the tie itself. These must be fully struck up and the ultimate features should look molded by the die (that's the best way I can describe it) with no flatness at the high points. I also look to the fields for evidence of die fatigue (orange peel look and haloes). Haloes can be interesting, but I don't generally care for orange peel, although it can tone nicely. Also, look for wild die polish effects. These can add to the interest of the coin significantly.

[PQSeated]

I've tried building a FS jefferson nickel collection in the past. Wow, some of the dates are near impossible to find in FS. I also tried finding the elusive 66, 67, 68D, 69D, and 69S FS Jefferson Nickels. Let me tell you, when PCGS ever grades one of those dates and MMs FS, it will be worth every penny paid for!

[Hoot]

Those are exceptionally tough dates PQ. So far, PCGS has only slabbed 2 1965 business strikes as FS. I want one . The others just may be impossible, but I have a 1968-D that is as near full steps as they get. I've attached a crappy scan of the steps, which are really 6-3-3-6, but show some bridging far to the left on the steps, with two small nicks on the steps. The scan really does not show the left steps well. Anyway, I've never seen better on a 68-D, but I'll bet there is. I've seen SEGS slab a few 60-Ds, 61-Ds, 65s, and 66s with attributions like "5 full steps, nicks/bridges", which is a detailed and fair attribution. It gives me hope that there are a few out there!

 

Hoot

[PQSeated]

Nice 68 D. I'll bet there are FS examples of the coins out there, it will just take searching through millions of coins to find them. I've also tried finding a 70-D in FS. Mitch owns the MS65 FS specimen, which has 6 full steps!! Yowzas on that coin!! I've searched through countless rolls looking for a FS example. The closest I came was a 3-2-2-3. Man, some of these dates just seem impossible. Oh well, the chase of them is what makes this series fun!

[jeh46544]

This is related to FS nicks. Not really about the dates you guys are discussing, but I found it interesting. Today I was at a local gas station and bought myself a 20oz soda. (I believe it was Mountain Dew) Anyway, I got a 1997 nickel in change. I looked at it and it was FS, totally perfect steps! I was amazed that a coin being in circulation this long would have perfect steps. Was this coin one of the first nickels made from a die?

[GDJMSP]

My young son, having recently been bitten by the collecting bug, is working on his Jefferson nickel set. As a result - dad ends up looking at a lot of nickels himself. It took me all of two coins to show him what a FS nickel was. After that - he was picking them out - and accurately - on a regular basis. He soon had a roll of them or more. And this was just from going through my change jar.

 

At first I thought no way. But upon examination of the coins under magnification - sure enough they were FS. The vast majority of them are from recent years - '95 or later and most are from the D mint. Even so - I was quite surprised to find so many among circulated coins.

[Hoot]

GDJMSP - Like you and Joe say, there can be some pleasant discoveries of FS Jeffs from modern circulating coinage. In 1991 the Mint lowered the relief of the coin to its present-day flatness. This made for a much sharper reverse strike. A nice short set of Jeffs can be assembled from circulation from 1991-present.

 

The steps of Monticello are historically opposite of the highest point of relief on the obverse, so as one marches back in years, the FS nickels become harder to find, until you get back to the early 1940s. Indeed, the best years for finding FS Jeffs ar 1939-1944. In those years, the master hub was in great shape and dies were made with attention to detail, it seems. Keep in mind that the master hub for circulation strikes was used from 1939-1970! So, as a rule of thumb, as one progresses through the years, the master hub became more and more worn, thus providing worse and worse transfers of the image. Combine that with mint-to-mint variability in machine adjustments, and you have a steady loss of great coins from 1945-1970.

 

Hoot