Coin grading by PGCS

[physics-fan3.14]

Sometimes it sucks to get results we don't want. But, that's an opportunity for an education. I generally make the assumption that the TPGs know more than I do about grading.

 

If your coins came back as "cleaned", "scratched", or with other problems, rather than blame them for trying to sucker-punch you use this opportunity to learn. What evidence did you miss? What did you overlook? Rather than taking a gamble at another TPG, try to figure out what is actually going on with the coins.

 

If you can, take pictures and post them here. We will be more than happy to help, if we can.

[jamesf-migration]

Good post Log potato. Lots of help and very informative.

 

Get the point LOGPOTATO

I'm asking if big sellers get slack with the grading of their coins, verses small once a year submittal's.

[AHFreak]

No. That is a misconception in my opinion. I think

there are many reasons why people think this, one being that they mostly only hear about the big dealer who got that crazy high grade, you don't hear about the 47K other coins that weren't such amazing high grades. I am a very small submitter, tiny in comparison to any "big dealer", and I have gotten top pops and finest Knowns with both PCGS and our hosts here ..

[wdrob]

 

The four proofs looked flawless to me and still cannot find a scratch on the one coin they graded.

 

I believe as a general rule - as a collector matures their perception of what is "flawless" evolves. Once I gave up the idea of a "grading conspiracy" my unexpected details graded coins reduced to zero.

 

Just an observation.

 

 

 

 

[Houston Investor]

Many have probably 1% of the grading know how of a grader at PCGS or NGC who sees thousands of coins on a weekly basis then are ticked when the coin comes back not making their grade. They are in a state of denial and need to look at the coin under a glass and understand why it made the grade it did.

[Conder101]

They are in a state of denial and need to look at the coin under a glass and understand why it made the grade it did.

But remember, it MAY have made the grade it did, because they erred.

[PaulS.]

I am experienced at grading coins and have read numerous books and spent a lot of time learning to grade coins.

 

No, I don't think it's easy to grade coins, but I think its become a lot of BS.

 

I've compared a certified PR70 to one that I have and cannot see the difference. But yet it will come back at a PR64

 

I do not think that every coin I get from the mint is going to be perfect, but lets get real here. Do the dealers get a break from companies like PCGS?

 

If its such a science to grade coins then publish the details of how a 1893 Columbian grades to a 62..64 or 66. It makes a lot of difference in the price a dealer will want

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but your first and third sentences do not compute. You may have been grading coins for years, but if you've been doing it wrong, does it really mean anything? If you can't tell the difference between a PF64 and a PF70, you clearly have a problem with your methods. What kind of lighting are you using for grading?

 

 

-Paul

[gmarguli]

I do not think that every coin I get from the mint is going to be perfect, but lets get real here. Do the dealers get a break from companies like PCGS?

 

I've blindly submitted bulk orders to both PCGS & NGC of things like proof Silver Eagles, modern commems, and modern proof sets. I've had some really bad grades mixed in with the usual 69/70s. Laughably bad grades. The mint makes pretty good quality overall, but garbage slips through. Also, any haze at all on a modern proof will generally knock the grade down to 68 or below.

 

Dealers get the benefit of looking at vastly more coins than you. They get the benefit of years of grading where knowing how to grade makes the difference between putting food on the table and not. They get the benefit of their losers being muted by the large pool of accurate and overgraded results. Some get the benefit of speaking with graders, not to get the coin upgraded, but to get an answer as to why the coin graded a certain way.

 

 

If its such a science to grade coins then publish the details of how a 1893 Columbian grades to a 62..64 or 66. It makes a lot of difference in the price a dealer will want

 

Who said grading was a science? It's not, it's an art. There are guidelines to generally accepted limits on how much wear or marks a coin can have for a certain grade, but it is still subjective to the person looking at the coin.

[seventee]

Prethen

Unfortunately, learning to grade just from books doesn't really work unless you only look at a lot of problem-free circulated stuff. Of course, you have to know what is "problem-free".....

 

.....I recommend sitting down with a dealer (or two) that you (and others) respect for his/her grading ability and have them show you how to grade the very coins you just got back. I'm certain you'll a thing a two that will take you buy surprise.

 

With some decent lighting (not florescent and halogen might be optimal), take a long look at your coins. Make sure you slowly tilt them around in the light. Sometimes the trick to seeing things pop is to tilt the coin a bit outside of the light source. Chances are you'll see some strong patches of hairlines and/or other troubling issues on the cleaned coins. On the coins of a lower grade than you expect, I'm sure you'll see a hairline or three that will pop out at you.

 

I once had a PCGS graded MS62 1859 Seated Dime.Beautiful coin with blue toning around the periphery.I could not figure out for the longest time why this coin was not graded MS63 by PCGS.

 

I took the coin to a trusted B&M dealer and asked him what he thought was up with my coin.He got out his loupe and inspected my 1859 dime and then gave me his opinion.

 

He pointed out that, "in the obverse stars very close to the staff head is a significant mark,a dig that is being very effectively obscured by the vivid blue toning around the periphery." It was his opinion that because of the dig,PCGS did not give my coin MS63 grade.

 

Both PCGS and NGC are competent to grade coins properly.I have coins in both company's holders.I've found that about 90% of the time,the grading service grade,PCGS or NGC no matter, matches up exactly with what I think the coin "should grade." That's good enough for me.

 

As Prethen says,use a good light and rotate the coin in the light.And use that loupe.I continue to be amazed at shows when I see that many a coin collector doesn't use a loupe to closely examine the coins that interest them.

 

I will say the lighting situation at the shows I've been to leaves much to be desired.I've even considered bringing my own battery powered light rig to the show.

 

Does anyone here know of a good battery powered lamp,not too big, that I could use at shows?

 

[t-arc]

I just sent pcgs a monster (in my opinion) 1937 mint state buffalo nickel that i thought had a shot at 67. And to boot is was fully proof like, not cleaned or buffed or anything like that. Comes back a 64! I was shocked but really not that surprised.

Its just an opinion I guess.

 

[coinman_23885]

I just sent pcgs a monster (in my opinion) 1937 mint state buffalo nickel that i thought had a shot at 67. And to boot is was fully proof like, not cleaned or buffed or anything like that. Comes back a 64! I was shocked but really not that surprised.

Its just an opinion I guess.

 

Any pics? In addition to seeing a potentially neat coin, it would also illustrate your point.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I just sent pcgs a monster (in my opinion) 1937 mint state buffalo nickel that i thought had a shot at 67. And to boot is was fully proof like, not cleaned or buffed or anything like that. Comes back a 64! I was shocked but really not that surprised.

Its just an opinion I guess.

 

37 or 37D ?

[MarkFeld]

I just sent pcgs a monster (in my opinion) 1937 mint state buffalo nickel that i thought had a shot at 67. And to boot is was fully proof like, not cleaned or buffed or anything like that. Comes back a 64! I was shocked but really not that surprised.

Its just an opinion I guess.

 

I have seen thousands of uncirculated 1937 buffalo nickels and have never seen a fully proof like example. So I am skeptical of your assessment of the coin.

[coinman_23885]

I just sent pcgs a monster (in my opinion) 1937 mint state buffalo nickel that i thought had a shot at 67. And to boot is was fully proof like, not cleaned or buffed or anything like that. Comes back a 64! I was shocked but really not that surprised.

Its just an opinion I guess.

 

I have seen thousands of uncirculated 1937 buffalo nickels and have never seen a fully proof like example. So I am skeptical of your assessment of the coin.

 

I agree with your skepticism insofar as fully PL examples are rare, and I have found that many people do not understand what PL truly means. With that said, NGC has a designated 1936, so it is plausible given that a PL is known for around this time frame in the series.

[RWB]

"I just sent pcgs a monster...."

 

I sure hope you declared it as hazardous when you mailed it.

[jpcienkus]

"I just sent pcgs a monster...."

 

I sure hope you declared it as hazardous when you mailed it.

 

"Open with Care" was on the shipping container!

[MJ]

"I just sent pcgs a monster...."

 

I sure hope you declared it as hazardous when you mailed it.

 

"Open with Care" was on the shipping container!

 

And hopefully he remembered to poke holes as well

 

Mark

[RWB]

Yep....monsters gotta breath, too.

[jpcienkus]

"I just sent pcgs a monster...."

 

I sure hope you declared it as hazardous when you mailed it.

 

"Open with Care" was on the shipping container!

 

And hopefully he remembered to poke holes as well

 

Mark

 

Nice! Didn't think of that one....

[Conder101]

That's why the Monsters you sent in didn't grade.

[RWB]

No air holes in the packing? The monsters were DOA?

[jpcienkus]

That's why the Monsters you sent in didn't grade.

 

Good one. Actually LOL'd.