UPDATE TO GREEN BEANS ETC by CaptBrian1

[CSJournals-migration]

This confirms -at least to me-

 

A few days ago, we had a discussion on one of my journals about the 2nd party grading of the CAC, PQ, MAC. Perhaps others to come, which seem to want a piece of the coin grading pie ($s)and not have to go through the processes of the NGC's and PCGS's.

 

I said before and I reiterate; We don't need high fives from anyone but the good guys! NGC and PCGS. Certainly not two or three or more of them.

 

I just went through a session with CAC and finally gave up. The dealer I went through could not believe my coin did not get the nod from them.

 

The dealer even sent a registered letter to CAC which has not been acknowledged as yet and much time has passed. We know they got the letter because it was signed for.

 

To further cement my allegations that their system is faulty, and my coin should have gotton their attention (green bean), NGC found it okay to give my coin an award, which in my mind far eclipses any 2ndary labelers thumbs up.

 

One picture worth thousand words.

 

For me, it puts to rest the question of the secondary labelers. They are no better at grading, than I am at spelling. Pretty good but in no way an authority.

 

Thanks, You decide what to do. I for one will NEVER pay more foa a coin with a label, and certainly do not want the holder sullied with stickers all over it.

 

Capt. Brian

The Lost Navigator

 

See more journals by CaptBrian1

[MarkFeld]

This confirms -at least to me-

 

A few days ago, we had a discussion on one of my journals about the 2nd party grading of the CAC, PQ, MAC. Perhaps others to come, which seem to want a piece of the coin grading pie ($s)and not have to go through the processes of the NGC's and PCGS's.

 

I said before and I reiterate; We don't need high fives from anyone but the good guys! NGC and PCGS. Certainly not two or three or more of them.

 

I just went through a session with CAC and finally gave up. The dealer I went through could not believe my coin did not get the nod from them.

 

The dealer even sent a registered letter to CAC which has not been acknowledged as yet and much time has passed. We know they got the letter because it was signed for.

 

To further cement my allegations that their system is faulty, and my coin should have gotton their attention (green bean), NGC found it okay to give my coin an award, which in my mind far eclipses any 2ndary labelers thumbs up.

 

One picture worth thousand words.

 

For me, it puts to rest the question of the secondary labelers. They are no better at grading, than I am at spelling. Pretty good but in no way an authority.

 

Thanks, You decide what to do. I for one will NEVER pay more foa a coin with a label, and certainly do not want the holder sullied with stickers all over it.

 

Capt. Brian

The Lost Navigator

 

See more journals by CaptBrian1

Congratulations on your award.But it says absolutely nothing about the coin which was rejected by CAC, CAC's level of expertise or their acceptance in the marketplace.

[CaptBrian]

Mark,

 

Being that you are with HA, and make money by auctioning coins, and the higher the price the higher you and your companies income goes, I wonder if you should abstain from this conversation as perhaps some conflict of interest could be there by touting that 'beaned' coins are worth more or better than others.

 

I need an explanation from CAC not you as to why NGC thinks my coin is the best, and CAC doesn't acknowledge its existence.

 

Just moving with the currents and tides of watching the seashores action.

[MarkFeld]

Mark,

 

Being that you are with HA, and make money by auctioning coins, and the higher the price the higher you and your companies income goes, I wonder if you should abstain from this conversation as perhaps some conflict of interest could be there by touting that 'beaned' coins are worth more or better than others.

 

I need an explanation from CAC not you as to why NGC thinks my coin is the best, and CAC doesn't acknowledge its existence.

 

Just moving with the currents and tides of watching the seashores action.

 

There was no conflict of interest in stating what I did above. I said nothing about the value or quality of the coin in question, with or without a sticker.

 

And CAC didn't fail to acknowledge your coin's existence. They merely declined to sticker it.

[CSdot]

Congratulations on your accomplishment. Not to take anything away from that, but does having the top rated registry set really say that your coins are average or high for their grade? Seems that a MS66 coin in a MS64 holder will get a bean, but a low MS65 coin in a MS65 holder will not. However, of those two (MS64 or MS65), the MS65 would be the top ranked for the registry set competition. I think we are talking apples and oranges.

 

That said, congratulations on your top registry set. I will have to check it out.

[CaptBrian]

Hmmm, not sure if I follow you.

 

Re: my registry set winner, it is not a set of coins, nor is it a low grade or any of the MS 65 and so on that you mention.

 

Mine was a top grade, PF68 with a star. None have gone to auction, none have been seen in any venue except the first collector, Kupersmith, who owned the coin and had his name on it.

 

I bought it in 2009 and even then it was a one pop highest grade none better.

 

I only can assume, without calling NGC that there were no others matching or at least as good. I do know there are a few of them graded PF68. But that is not PF68 with a star. Which means half way to the next grade.

 

Using CAC's own description of a 'beanable" coin, mine fits about as high as it gets.

 

Looking over the coin you would think it would be a 70 or at least a 69+.

 

I cannot afford to take a chance on it coming back lower, or have it lost in the mail.

 

I can only stick my guns. I have always said, "If you know you're right, then go ahead." Well, I know I'm right on this one.

 

I know I'm right with my experience with MAC. I was falling for it. I was going to pay $20 to have my coins looked at. But since that experience, I have determined its just a way to make money. And perhaps as negative as a racket or RICO act to be looked at by the Atty Gen.

 

IN any case. I appreciate your input and will not soften from my thinking. Besides, I have more replies for than against, so it solidifies my thinking..

 

If need be, I will have them post their thoughts on my website

 

I intend to not worry about it further.

 

Brian

[CaptBrian]

They failed, and are still failing in their lack of response to one of their dealers. I think it is a sham, and a lousy way of doing business.

 

Every time my methods or business was called into question, I faced it that same day in a most aggressive manner and ALWAYS won the day.

 

That come from being right before one shoots his mouth off.

 

Being right is a powerful tool if used right. Just because you have an axe, it does not mean you have to wield it.

 

Capt. Brian

[MarkFeld]

Hmmm, not sure if I follow you.

 

Re: my registry set winner, it is not a set of coins, nor is it a low grade or any of the MS 65 and so on that you mention.

 

Mine was a top grade, PF68 with a star. None have gone to auction, none have been seen in any venue except the first collector, Kupersmith, who owned the coin and had his name on it.

 

I bought it in 2009 and even then it was a one pop highest grade none better.

 

I only can assume, without calling NGC that there were no others matching or at least as good. I do know there are a few of them graded PF68. But that is not PF68 with a star. Which means half way to the next grade.

 

Using CAC's own description of a 'beanable" coin, mine fits about as high as it gets.

 

Looking over the coin you would think it would be a 70 or at least a 69+.

 

I cannot afford to take a chance on it coming back lower, or have it lost in the mail.

 

I can only stick my guns. I have always said, "If you know you're right, then go ahead." Well, I know I'm right on this one.

 

I know I'm right with my experience with MAC. I was falling for it. I was going to pay $20 to have my coins looked at. But since that experience, I have determined its just a way to make money. And perhaps as negative as a racket or RICO act to be looked at by the Atty Gen.

 

IN any case. I appreciate your input and will not soften from my thinking. Besides, I have more replies for than against, so it solidifies my thinking..

 

If need be, I will have them post their thoughts on my website

 

I intend to not worry about it further.

 

Brian

 

"PF68 with a star" does not mean it is "half way to the next grade". The star signifies exceptional eye appeal in the opinion of NGC. It does not speak to the technical quality of the coin.The coin could just as easily be a low end example as a high end one.

 

My guess is that it displays some cameo contrast, but not enough to merit the "Cameo" designation. Hence, the star. Likewise, often a coin designated as "Cameo", which is very close to "Ultra Cameo" will receive a star.

 

You sound as if you think because a coin is graded very high that it should merit a sticker from CAC. That is not the way they operate. They have declined to sticker a great many very high grade coins. And that was because they did not meet their standards.

 

What is your expertise with Proof Liberty Quarter Eagles, and in particular, with those graded PR68 (including Cameos and Deep/Ultra Cameos)? How many have you examined in person? Whatever your answer, you do not have the expertise that CAC does. And, while your coin might be very nice, you can't dictate their standards.

[brg5658]

I'm confused also.

 

You're bragging about having a "top set" (NGC ONLY) for a registry set for which you currently have ONE coin?!

 

I mean, sure, it's a great looking coin, but c'mon...you and I both know that it doesn't say anything about having the best "set".

[CaptBrian]

Hey, I'm not bragging, And these aren't my rules. AND I parroted actual happenings re labeling.

 

I do not have an axe to grind, and I am not going to keep defending something someone else did. I didn't give the coin a registry award NGC did.

 

Why is there such a harangue against me when all I want is a fair and honest coin world when the rest of the world can't agree on what shape table to fight over, or what the sunrise is really.

 

We are simply talking coins here. Why the war zone? I can't understand. Most folks I show the award to think it is nice. Certain folks here want to make a black mark on my parentage or something.

 

I think it is a simple course to follow, and I STILL say, we don't need high fives from several regraders.

 

I shall say no more about it.

 

Brian

[MarkFeld]

Hey, I'm not bragging, And these aren't my rules. AND I parroted actual happenings re labeling.

 

I do not have an axe to grind, and I am not going to keep defending something someone else did. I didn't give the coin a registry award NGC did.

 

Why is there such a harangue against me when all I want is a fair and honest coin world when the rest of the world can't agree on what shape table to fight over, or what the sunrise is really.

 

We are simply talking coins here. Why the war zone? I can't understand. Most folks I show the award to think it is nice. Certain folks here want to make a black mark on my parentage or something.

 

I think it is a simple course to follow, and I STILL say, we don't need high fives from several regraders.

 

I shall say no more about it.

 

Brian

 

"Harangue", "war zone", "black mark on my parentage" - sounds like a bit of hyperbole there.

[brg5658]

Hey, I'm not bragging, And these aren't my rules. AND I parroted actual happenings re labeling.

 

I do not have an axe to grind, and I am not going to keep defending something someone else did. I didn't give the coin a registry award NGC did.

 

Why is there such a harangue against me when all I want is a fair and honest coin world when the rest of the world can't agree on what shape table to fight over, or what the sunrise is really.

 

We are simply talking coins here. Why the war zone? I can't understand. Most folks I show the award to think it is nice. Certain folks here want to make a black mark on my parentage or something.

 

I think it is a simple course to follow, and I STILL say, we don't need high fives from several regraders.

 

I shall say no more about it.

 

Brian

 

CaptBrian, we are definitely on the same page.

 

I personally have no use for CAC and find them to be nothing more than a money-making ploy for the company via their owned and operated dealer-only online coin exchanges. They are a business, like any other -- in this case though, they didn't have to work too hard to "sell' (market) their product as there seems to be a religious following to the opinion of John Albanese.

 

My comments were really that CAC has nothing to do with the NGC registry -- they are two different things completely. I didn't understand your connection that your one-coin "best" set in the eyes of NGC was somehow a slap in the face to CAC. That connection didn't and doesn't make sense (IMO).

 

NGC prints and mails the "best set" certificates to anyone who has a #1 set at the close of the registry-set year (usually in early December). Those certificates are not an endorsement by NGC for the quality of your set - indeed, even registry sets with one competing coin still get a certificate. It's just a piece of paper -- don't over-interpret it.

 

My advice, take it or leave it:

Enjoy your coins, collect what you like, and let the other stuff fall where it may. It's your hobby, enjoy it on your terms.

 

(thumbs u

 

Brandon

 

 

[coinsbygary]

Hey, I'm not bragging, And these aren't my rules. AND I parroted actual happenings re labeling.

 

I do not have an axe to grind, and I am not going to keep defending something someone else did. I didn't give the coin a registry award NGC did.

 

Why is there such a harangue against me when all I want is a fair and honest coin world when the rest of the world can't agree on what shape table to fight over, or what the sunrise is really.

 

We are simply talking coins here. Why the war zone? I can't understand. Most folks I show the award to think it is nice. Certain folks here want to make a black mark on my parentage or something.

 

I think it is a simple course to follow, and I STILL say, we don't need high fives from several regraders.

 

I shall say no more about it.

 

Brian

 

CaptBrian, we are definitely on the same page.

 

I personally have no use for CAC and find them to be nothing more than a money-making ploy for the company via their owned and operated dealer-only online coin exchanges. They are a business, like any other -- in this case though, they didn't have to work too hard to "sell' (market) their product as there seems to be a religious following to the opinion of John Albanese.

 

My comments were really that CAC has nothing to do with the NGC registry -- they are two different things completely. I didn't understand your connection that your one-coin "best" set in the eyes of NGC was somehow a slap in the face to CAC. That connection didn't and doesn't make sense (IMO).

 

NGC prints and mails the "best set" certificates to anyone who has a #1 set at the close of the registry-set year (usually in early December). Those certificates are not an endorsement by NGC for the quality of your set - indeed, even registry sets with one competing set still get a certificate. It's just a piece of paper -- don't over-interpret it.

 

My advice, take it or leave it:

Enjoy your coins, collect what you like, and let the other stuff fall where it may. It's your hobby, enjoy it on your terms.

 

(thumbs u

 

Brandon

 

 

CaptBrian

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread except for Brandon's comments and especially his final comments to enjoy our coins. We lose sight of the joy we find in collecting coins when we allow the controversies of the day to get in the way of our enjoyment. And not only this thread, but a lot of others currently on these boards. Yes, much of that other stuff is necessary to the hobby. However, when you get a chance haul out that proof 68 of yours, look at it a while, and then see if all the other periphery things matter. At that point, its about you and your coin and nothing else much matters.

Gary