GRADES POSTED for these two coppers...

[brg5658]

I submitted these two Canadian penny tokens to NGC back in January at the FUN show. Just got around to photographing them this weekend. Guess the assigned grades.

 

Grades / commentary below. Thanks for all of the guesses / comments.

 

1. 1813 Canada Wellington Cossack Penny token (WE-13)

I believe this token was probably "darkened" at some point in the past. I was aware of that sending it in, but I paid 1/2 of what a normal AU example goes for. These don't come with very nice reverse horse / Cossack detail, so I was happy to have this very decent example. It was actually in a problem-free ICCS flip graded EF40. My grade for it was AU55BN upon submission, assuming it wouldn't be dinged for the odd/darkened color (they are often quite forgiving on copper 200 years old). Nonetheless, it wasn't the color that they listed on the AU Details holder -- it was "surface hairlines" -- of which there are none that I can identify in hand under various lighting methods. It is now a part of my horse collection, and will remain in the details holder as I'm not all that worried about it.

 

2. 1857 Upper Canada Penny token (PC-6D)

The Upper Canada token I purchased in an problem-free ICCS MS-60 flip, and my grade for it upon submission was MS62BN. It came back in an MS63BN holder from NGC. It has nice luster in hand, but a few dark spots and some high point envelope rub. Truly UNC (lots of luster in hand), but I'd say 63-limited.

[Raisethis2]

Don't know at all but I'll guess AU 55 and MS 65.

[wdrob]

Well like Bowers says; "you got to know what was there to begin with before you can grade a coin."

 

I have never had any luck on most the items that you purchase since I have no clue how solid the strike was initially.

 

So with that I will try a new approach -- I will just copy the poster in front of me.

 

I guess AU55 and MS65 ....

 

No I can't do that. I have to guess on my own.

 

I say the top one graded MS63 and the bottom one got a MS64

 

I think the strike was probably weak originally on that reverse center since the obverse does not seem to have any indication of equal wear.

 

 

[jpcienkus]

Cool coppers Brandon.

 

AU53

 

AU58

 

I agree with Bill about grading these. I think the last time you posted in here, I was way off, but at least I'm learning about the coins.

[BillJones]

I don't know this series so this just my application of American standards to a foreign token.

 

If that is the natural color for the 1813 Wellington piece, I would grade it AU-55, maybe 58 if there is enough luster. There is some wear on the portrait. Most of the missing detail on the revese is due to strike.

 

If this piece has a copper color usually, then it has a problem and would get a details grade for environmental damage. I know that the British did issue some "black Proofs" however, and this might be one of them.

 

I would grade the Upper Canada piece MS-63, Brown. It is very close to MS-64, but it has some envelope affected surfaces that give it a two toned appearance.

[Hack]

I am going to guess as follows:

 

1813 - It appears the high point on the coin is the rider on the reverse as the arm and leg show wear and the field does show circulation marks on both the obverse and reverse. AU 58

 

1857 - This coin looks MS with clean fields, but does show some contact and color change on the high points on both the obverse and reverse. MS 64

[michael]

top 58

 

bottom 63

[brg5658]

Grades and commentary posted above.