Franklin Mint Mini Ingots

[BrendaM]

I would like to determine the value of a 1976 Franklin Mint Great Sailing Ships of History Mini Ingot set. The set is complete: no pieces missing and I have the original case and booklet that accompanied the set when sold. According to the online research I've done, the ingots are Sterling Silver. Replacements.com states the weight is 5 ozt in total for all the mini ingots and sells the set for $300. The ebay sold listings vary quite a bit from less than $100 to around $300. One website states the original sales price was $150 (the US gov consumer price index values that as >$600 in 2015). There are some websites that assert to be dealers in such things, but I question whether it's worth a formal appraisal.

 

What process would you use to value the ingot set?

Should I determine the melt value as a guide?

One online conversion states 5 ozt = ~155g. So, should I multiply 92.5% x 155g = 143g of silver? Or should I just put it up on eBay? If so, at what starting bid or reserve price would you recommend?

[cpm9ball]

My personal opinion is that the Franklin Mint is no better than the Coin Vault. Both are (and always have been) overpriced, and very few people who buy from them are able to recover their original cost unless they get lucky and sell to a bidiot. If you listed them on FleaBay, you'd find that most bidders are looking to buy as close to melt value as possible.

 

Chris

[WoodenJefferson]

Agreed, the collect-ability does not out weigh the bullion value, so the buy prices fluctuate with silver bullion prices.

 

Of course, there is that section of collectors (in this case ships) that would be willing to pay more than just melt value for the purposes of display, which would also then weigh heavy on condition.

 

If the set is in good condition, I would ask for more than 10% of current melt for silver.

[BrendaM]

thanks for the advice!

[BillJones]

My experience with Franklin Mint stuff is very limited, but I'll relate a story. Back in the 1970s they issued a "moon medal" to their regular customers. A buddy of mine got one directly from the company.

 

One of the lunar missions that orbited around the moon, but did not land, had some silver in the capsule. That silver was combined with more silver and the resulting metal was made into these tiny medals. The catalog said that the piece was worth a couple hundred dollars.

 

At the time there was a New York City coin dealer, that was more fluff than substance, that had large amount of Franklin Mint material on display and for sale. My friend took this piece and the rest of his collection in to sell it to them. We asked to see the "Franklin Mint buyer." This fellow comes out from the back, looks at the material and does not make an offer despite the fact that they had multihundred dollar price tags on what they were offering. When my friend asked about the moon medal, the buyer responded, "I know how you got that," meaning it was a premium that Franklin Mint gave to regular customers, and declined to buy it.

 

Ultimately I sold the piece to a guy at the firm where I was working at the time for $12. His son was into space collectables, and that was best price I could get for it. My friend sold the rest of his collection for melt in the cases where it was silver. For the bronze stuff (a Bicentennial set of 200 medals the company issued during that period)

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Back in 1984, my wife bought a bunch of so-called collector plates from the Bradford Exchange, she was paying like $34.95 per plate and they were saying that future prices would increase exponentially because there was a limited supply available.

 

Instead of them now being worth $99.95 each, your lucky if you can get $9.95 each.

[cpm9ball]

One of the things that always gets me about the Franklin Mint is how they stress the rarity of an item because it is limited to 45 production days. What do some of these buyers think.....that they are only capable of producing 2-3 dozen per day?

 

Chris

[BillJones]

One of the things that always gets me about the Franklin Mint is how they stress the rarity of an item because it is limited to 45 production days. What do some of these buyers think.....that they are only capable of producing 2-3 dozen per day?

 

Chris

 

No, the game is they try to make you think that the mintages are small because the ordering period is limited to 45 days. They were able to strike more after the ordering if they needed them to fill the orders while the item was available. After that, of course, the dies were destroyed so that no more could be made. One observer at the time put it this way. The demand for Franklin Mint items peaked during the time that the Franklin Mint was marketing them. After that it dropped like stone and for almost everything they issued stayed that way.

 

It's a little like the demand for many U.S. Proof sets. The year they are issued there is a pool of collectors who want them. After that the demand is limited because its only people who are new to the game who are going to want them. When the mintages are well over a million sets, there is more than enough supply to cover that. The trouble with Franklin Mint material is that there is very little post issue demand.

 

Another game they played was that they got you to sign up for a series of medals that they would sell over a period of time on a closed end or open ended basis. You had to become a member of their "collector society" for those items before they started issuing them. After that sign-up period there were no new memberships.

 

My friend from the '70s started a Bicentennial set in copper that contained 200 pieces. Two medals were issued per month, and to keep up your membership you had to pay for them every month. If you stopped paying your membership was bye-bye. You could transfer your membership to someone else, and they could start paying, but that was game. Trouble was he was stuck with a set of half dollar sized copper medals that were of worth very little. There was also a silver set of the series that was ultimately worth melt.

 

The jig was up in the early 1980s when "60 Minutes" ran a story about this. They interviewed a number of collectors who were "astounded " that their collections were worth no more than their melt value. Soon after that Franklin Mint got into model cars and other collectables.

[RWB]

The only FM medals I bought were the 50 in the bicentennial set in silver. I bought them for the designs, not considering how much I'd loose on them. If you look at the 50-states quarters, you can see just how superior the FM designs are to almost any of the state quarters. I still look at them occasionally, but it makes me sad that the US mint can;t come close to most of these in quality or creativity.

 

I also have a couple of the bronze and silver business cards - which are interesting and very nice little items.

[cpm9ball]

One of the things that always gets me about the Franklin Mint is how they stress the rarity of an item because it is limited to 45 production days. What do some of these buyers think.....that they are only capable of producing 2-3 dozen per day?

 

Chris

 

No, the game is they try to make you think that the mintages are small because the ordering period is limited to 45 days. They were able to strike more after the ordering if they needed them to fill the orders while the item was available. After that, of course, the dies were destroyed so that no more could be made. One observer at the time put it this way. The demand for Franklin Mint items peaked during the time that the Franklin Mint was marketing them. After that it dropped like stone and for almost everything they issued stayed that way.

 

It's a little like the demand for many U.S. Proof sets. The year they are issued there is a pool of collectors who want them. After that the demand is limited because its only people who are new to the game who are going to want them. When the mintages are well over a million sets, there is more than enough supply to cover that. The trouble with Franklin Mint material is that there is very little post issue demand.

 

Another game they played was that they got you to sign up for a series of medals that they would sell over a period of time on a closed end or open ended basis. You had to become a member of their "collector society" for those items before they started issuing them. After that sign-up period there were no new memberships.

 

My friend from the '70s started a Bicentennial set in copper that contained 200 pieces. Two medals were issued per month, and to keep up your membership you had to pay for them every money. If you stopped paying your membership was bye-bye. You could transfer your membership to someone else, and they could start paying, but that was game. Trouble was he was stuck with a set of half dollar sized copper medals that were of worth very little. There was also a silver set of the series that was ultimately worth melt.

 

The jig was up in the early 1980s when "60 Minutes" ran a story about this. They interviewed a number of collectors who were "astounded " that their collections were worth no more than their melt value. Soon after that Franklin Mint got into model cars and other collectables.

 

(thumbs u

 

Chris

[BrendaM]

many thanks to all who contributed those great stories about the Franklin Mint hype. I knew a lady who, back in the 80's, was one of those limited edition ceramic plate collectors. Of course, back then people had to really dig for information on collectibles and didn't have the resources of the www and knowledgable folks like the people on this list.

 

I guess the take-home message on the Franklin Mint is there's no "melt value" for emotional content. It's all just mush . . .

 

thanks all for the time spent contributing to my education.