Who Said PCGS is Stricter than NGC?

[physics-fan3.14]

At the recent FUN show, I dropped this coin off at our hosts for a crossover. It is a stunning, black and white cameo contrast, DMPL dollar graded by PCGS. I got it last year at Don Rinkor, and am incredibly pleased with the coin. PCGS graded it 65+DMPL.

 

Since my entire PL collection is in NGC holders (for obvious reasons), I wanted to cross this one over to match. I thought it would be a no-brainer - the coin is clearly PQ. And everyone knows that PCGS is stricter than NGC, right? (obviously, I'm not necessarily partial to this opinion - I truly think the coin is Plus material)

 

WRONG!

 

I got it back today, and the result was "Not Plus." So, it resides in its old PCGS holder. I still love the coin, so I have no intention to sell. I also realize that this is just one data point, and no conclusions can be drawn from it. However, realize that Plus at one company is not necessarily Plus at another.

 

[coinman_23885]

For exceptional eye appeal, NGC will award a star. PCGS doesn't have the star designation (despite my pleading with them to start one), and will instead bump a coin with superior eye appeal with an increase in the holder grade. I have seen coins with excellent eye appeal bumped up to a "+" or a full point or two because of eye appeal. My guess is that PCGS gave this coin a slight bump for the cameo contrasts which enhance its eye appeal. That's just my .

[BillJones]

I have never been a fan of this "every coin has to be in the same brand of holder" thing, but I know it means a lot to some collectors. To me it's a lot of money down the drain for not that much of an advantage. When the collection is sold being all in the same holder does not mean that much because 99% of collections get broken up anyway.

 

I am assuming that PCGS graded this coin MS-65, P-L without a "+." If that's true there is not a lot of difference between the two grades. I know CAC does not take the "+" or the "*" into consideration when they give out green and gold beans.

 

Going by the photos I'd say that this coin is a MS-65, P-L, but I don't think that it is that close to making MS-66, so I would not have given a "+" if I'd been asked to grade it. But has the previous guy wrote that's just one collector's opinion.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Bill, it is currently graded 65+ DMPL by PCGS.

[cpm9ball]

I'm with Bill. I don't think it merits the +.

 

Chris

[BillJones]

Bill, it is currently graded 65+ DMPL by PCGS.

 

Sorry, I should have said NGC graded it MS-65, Proof-like of some sort, I assume. Did NGC want to grade it less than MS-65?

 

Incendently this far from the only time that the owner of an expensive PCGS coin couldn't get it cross in the same grade to NGC. Years ago a dealer I knew had a client who wanted to cross Pan-Pac octagonal $50 gold in PCGS MS-64 to an NGC holder in the same grade. NGC would only grade it MS-63.

[physics-fan3.14]

Bill, it is currently graded 65+ DMPL by PCGS.

 

Did NGC want to grade it less than MS-65?

 

I have no idea. I put the minimum cross grade at 65+, so it came back to me in the PCGS holder.

[jom]

That's a great coin so to me it doesn't matter much about "+" signs or stars or green clovers or blue diamonds.

 

As to who the most conservative graders: I don't really know...it just depends on the series. Recently NGC has been dinged for some mistakes in the market place but...really...was it all that severe? Probably not but like I've said in other threads this can cause many of the correctly graded coins by NGC getting crossed to PCGS leaving only the bad examples.

 

However....the best TPG is the one that is the most consistent NOT the most conservative, IMO.

 

jom

[RWB]

It has been said that PCGS permits graders only one toilet break per day, while NGC permits two. That sounds "more stricter" to me....

 

[physics-fan3.14]

It has been said that PCGS permits graders only one toilet break per day, while NGC permits two. That sounds "more stricter" to me....

 

 

I also heard when graders make a mistake and PCGS has to pay, they get banished to the bullion table as punishment.

 

"Grade, ye coin dogs, grade! Full speed ahead!" As the foreman cracks his bullwhip, the drummer at the front of the room picks up his pace - constantly beating time. Only three beats of the drum allowed per coin. What sins have these graders committed that they are stuck in this living hell? Is there no mercy from the coin gods?

 

 

Oops.... I may have gotten "coin grading" and "Ben Hur" mixed up in the storytelling...

[wdrob]

It has been said that PCGS permits graders only one toilet break per day, while NGC permits two. That sounds "more stricter" to me....

 

 

I also heard when graders make a mistake and PCGS has to pay, they get banished to the bullion table as punishment.

 

"Grade, ye coin dogs, grade! Full speed ahead!" As the foreman cracks his bullwhip, the drummer at the front of the room picks up his pace - constantly beating time. Only three beats of the drum allowed per coin. What sins have these graders committed that they are stuck in this living hell? Is there no mercy from the coin gods?

 

Write a book on coin grading that makes me laugh like that and you have a customer for sure!

 

 

 

[dimefreak]

It has been said that PCGS permits graders only one toilet break per day, while NGC permits two. That sounds "more stricter" to me....

 

 

I also heard when graders make a mistake and PCGS has to pay, they get banished to the bullion table as punishment.

 

"Grade, ye coin dogs, grade! Full speed ahead!" As the foreman cracks his bullwhip, the drummer at the front of the room picks up his pace - constantly beating time. Only three beats of the drum allowed per coin. What sins have these graders committed that they are stuck in this living hell? Is there no mercy from the coin gods?

 

 

Oops.... I may have gotten "coin grading" and "Ben Hur" mixed up in the storytelling...

 

Friend of mine named Warren from New Hampshire once told me the newbie graders over there have a price guide at there table ..... And no he was not kidding

[Raisethis2]

The PCGS price guide shows a $200 difference between the straight grade and the plus grade DMPL 1885 P. That may be a bit inflated anyway so crossing as an MS 65 DMPL might not actually be that big a deal.

 

Depends on how much you want the NGC holder.

 

[BillJones]

It has been said that PCGS permits graders only one toilet break per day, while NGC permits two. That sounds "more stricter" to me....

 

 

I also heard when graders make a mistake and PCGS has to pay, they get banished to the bullion table as punishment.

 

"Grade, ye coin dogs, grade! Full speed ahead!" As the foreman cracks his bullwhip, the drummer at the front of the room picks up his pace - constantly beating time. Only three beats of the drum allowed per coin. What sins have these graders committed that they are stuck in this living hell? Is there no mercy from the coin gods?

 

 

Oops.... I may have gotten "coin grading" and "Ben Hur" mixed up in the storytelling...

 

Friend of mine named Warren from New Hampshire once told me the newbie graders over there have a price guide at there table ..... And no he was not kidding

 

One of things that I have noticed for many years is that both services are reluctant give a coin the next higher grade, which is usually one Mint State grading point, if that grade represents a significant price increase. Some the most "PQ" coins for the grade assigned I have seen, have been key dates that went WAY UP in price if they received one more Mint State grading point.

[RWB]

"Grading coins" is an overlap of SD curves - not a continuum.

[jom]

It has been said that PCGS permits graders only one toilet break per day, while NGC permits two. That sounds "more stricter" to me....

 

 

I also heard when graders make a mistake and PCGS has to pay, they get banished to the bullion table as punishment.

 

"Grade, ye coin dogs, grade! Full speed ahead!" As the foreman cracks his bullwhip, the drummer at the front of the room picks up his pace - constantly beating time. Only three beats of the drum allowed per coin. What sins have these graders committed that they are stuck in this living hell? Is there no mercy from the coin gods?

 

 

Oops.... I may have gotten "coin grading" and "Ben Hur" mixed up in the storytelling...

 

Friend of mine named Warren from New Hampshire once told me the newbie graders over there have a price guide at there table ..... And no he was not kidding

 

One of things that I have noticed for many years is that both services are reluctant give a coin the next higher grade, which is usually one Mint State grading point, if that grade represents a significant price increase. Some the most "PQ" coins for the grade assigned I have seen, have been key dates that went WAY UP in price if they received one more Mint State grading point.

 

Which makes perfect sense since the TPG is guaranteeing the grade. They are reluctant to give that step up in grade since they'll have to eat the price difference if there is a mistake made.

 

jom

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Sort of strange that it didn't get the +.

 

I just got 3 coins back from a recent submission, all for crossover from PCGS to NGC, and after following the boards here, sort of expected a couple not to cross at all. All were gold, late 19th century and early 20th century. The AU 53 crossed to AU 53, but the other 2, an MS 64 and an MS 65, both crossed too, but crossed up to MS 64+ and MS 65+. Very pleased.

 

A 4th gold coin in the submission, went to NCS for conservation first, it was in an old NGC holder, AU 58, and there was some dirt in there and a little black grime in the lettering on the reverse. After NCS conserved it, making it look better, but not incredibly better, NGC re-holdered it as AU 58+.

 

Couldn't be happier with NCS and NGC.

 

I don't collect silver, but your coin is very nice. Must look great, firsthand.

 

Bob

[MBA101]

The Skidaway Island collection had many PCGS graded busties that were crossed to NGC. The thing is that the majority of CBH collectors prefer these coins in PCGS holders because there is a thought that PCGS is better at grading them than NGC. Something I truly do not understand.

 

The results of my little study (only coins that i could identify):

 

14 crossed at grade (including 5 AU55's and 5 AU58's)

4 got downgraded

4 got upgraded

 

Looks like they grade pretty close to the same to me.

[MBA101]

And for those who do not know, the crossover service is set up such that the graders do not see the original grade on the former holder (if they were sent in holdered by Heritage that is)

 

 

What is with the registry set links? the links work but...

[coinman1794]

Based solely on the images; the long string of bag marks in both the left and right obverse fields would make me hesitant to call this an MS65+. It is still a great coin, however.

[coinman1794]

The Skidaway Island collection had many PCGS graded busties that were crossed to NGC. The thing is that the majority of CBH collectors prefer these coins in PCGS holders because there is a thought that PCGS is better at grading them than NGC. Something I truly do not understand.

 

The results of my little study (only coins that i could identify):

 

14 crossed at grade (including 5 AU55's and 5 AU58's)

4 got downgraded

4 got upgraded

 

Looks like they grade pretty close to the same to me.

 

A spread of 8 and 14 is actually very divergent, in my opinion. The actual problem is that the two services have a different set of standards for Bust half dollars, and each is pretty consistent in following that standard, though the two are not always compatible. I've done posts about this very topic in the past.

[coinman1794]

For exceptional eye appeal, NGC will award a star. PCGS doesn't have the star designation (despite my pleading with them to start one), and will instead bump a coin with superior eye appeal with an increase in the holder grade. I have seen coins with excellent eye appeal bumped up to a "+" or a full point or two because of eye appeal. My guess is that PCGS gave this coin a slight bump for the cameo contrasts which enhance its eye appeal. That's just my .

 

This could be the case. I have also seen them do so.