Bowers catalog photos don't quite ....

[Sunnywood]

As some of you know, I had already placed a substantial consignment with B&M for the Baltimore Sale before Dave's separation from the firm. Needless to say, I have been concerned about the consignment, but John Pack and his team have really held it together. The catalog is a fine piece of work.

 

However, one complaint I have always had with Bowers catalogs is they don't capture the colors of rainbow-toned silver proofs in their color plate photos. I think the Goldbergs do the best job of this, followed by Superior, then Heritage. Stack's tends to digitally oversaturate and enhance their color photos to the point where they are not realistic. But Bowers' photos capture the least amount of color, and really do the coins a disservice.

 

I would like to show you all what some of my coins really look like !! These are all from the upcoming Baltimore auction:

 

Lot 4048 - Original 1862 ex Childs

Here's a typical story of Pop reports: When the Childs Collection was put up at auction in 1999, this PCGS PR65 coin was Pop 4/0 at PCGS. Yes, 1862 is a very tough date in gem !!! However, today the pops are 9/0. Does anyone really think five more gems showed up since 1999? No way !!! Somebody was resubmitting one of those first PR65 coins !!

 

Lot 4056 - Gorgeous 1865 ex Benson II Sale

Incidentally, there was a mishap in the Benson II catalog. For any of you who might want to look this coin up there, this coin is pictured as Lot 1213, and was sold as Lot 1213. However, the cataloguers swapped the lot descriptions of 1213 and 1214. So the descriptive text under Lot 1214 actually described this coin!! Hate it when that happens !!!

 

Lot 4058 - Lapis lazuli 1866 ex Benson II Sale

These are two photos of the same coin !!!! The above left photo from the Goldberg catalog is way too blue. The above right photo is from Bowers & Merena. For this one, I think Bowers did a better job with the photo, which appears on the cover of the Baltimore catalog. See how different the coin looks in the two photos? And the coin actually looks much better than either photo !! Nobody seems to be able to get this one quite right.

 

And by the way: Hello, PCGS, are you listening?? You graded this coin PR64?? Are you kidding?? The coin made the cover of two important auction catalogs: Benson II (back cover) and the upcoming Bowers Sale. I grade the coin PR65-PR66. Obviously the Goldbergs and the Bowers team didn't think it was just an ordinary PR64 either !!!

 

 

Lot 4062 - Iridescent 1868 ex Benson II Sale

 

Lot 4076 - Stunning gem 1873 ex Benson Coll.

 

Yes - GEM !! PCGS was way ridiculous on some of these coins!!! PCGS undergraded every single one of these coins relative to their auction market values ... I bet you this comment will again be proven true based on the final prices realized after the dust settles in Baltimore !!!! I heard PCGS is more reasonable now, I guess I should have resubmitted them, but I have learned that in a major auction the coins do generally find their correct levels ...

 

Now that's what these coins should look like in the B&M catalog !!!

 

And finally, my absolute favorite proof seated dollar: an 1872 from an original matched proof set that was broken up and sold as individual lots dispersed throughout the Stack's Vermeule Collection catalog. This coin appeared as lot 484 in that sale. Let's compare some photos: The first images are from Stack's. The reverse really does look like that !!! The second photo is from the current Bowers auction - same coin !!! In person, the trace of an old fingerprint on the obverse does not detract from the coin's appearance in the least. (The proof: the coin realized over $24,000 RAW at the Vermeule Sale in Nov. 2001 !!!)

 

Lot 4071 - Spectacular 1872 ex Stack's Vermeule Sale

 

I hope everyone enjoys these coins as much as I have !!!

Sunnywood

 

 

 

[EVillageProwler]

Dude,

 

I'm getting one of my (in)famous physical reactions!!! Quick, where's my dog?!? !

 

EVP

 

[Architecht]

Ok, that's gross.

 

(laughing)

 

Arch

[BankNote1]

Those dollars are whoppers! I don't think B&M or Heritage photos do super toned coins justice, IMO!

[PQSeated]

Wow, those coins are superb and beautiful!

[Tradedollarnut]

EVP:

 

Sunnywood: Man, did B&M butcher the picture of the Vermeule coin or what!?!

[Sunnywood]

TDN,

 

Yeah the photographers at B&M (or their vendor) are really trailing behind the pack of major auction houses when it comes to gorgeously toned silver proofs !!!

 

And a really great coin like that 1872 tends to suffer the most ... after all, an ordinary photo may well represent an ordinary coin, but it cannot represent an extraordinary coin. This only goes to show two things: (1) how difficult it is to capture the appearance of high-end beautiful coins in photographs (especially colorfully toned silver); and (2) how important it is to see coins in person !!!

 

I think I like the Bowers photo of the 1866 better than that overly blue Goldberg photo from Benson II, but all the other coins don't really show up at all in the Bowers photos.

 

There is a great set of trade dollars that follows the seated dollars at the Baltimore Sale. I know you'll be viewing the trade dollars !!! So be sure to have a look at my seated proofs too !! There's another good one that I didn't post a photo of - the 1864 PF66 ex Silverman, which was the ONLY exceptionally nice proof in the large but otherwise mediocre Silverman group. I bought the 1864 from Laura for (of course) a lot of $$. Laura doesn't come cheap !!!

 

Sunnywood

[Tradedollarnut]

Laura doesn't come cheap !!!

 

You tellin' me? I gotta back her!

 

Actually, that trade dollar set is for the most part composed of very mediocre coins. A few are very nice, however.

 

My trade dollar set has gone about as far as it's gonna go. I think seated dollars are next, tho probably MS for a while. I viewed two of the B&M coins already - should have had them send me some of your proofs, too!

 

[EVillageProwler]

I think seated dollars are next, tho probably MS for a while.

 

That's the day the music died. So, bye bye Miss American Pie. Drove my Chevy to the levee ...

 

 

EVP

 

[Hoot]

Sunnywood! I looked at this thread and passed out for a few hours! ! For the gash in my head, you can send me one of those pieces for compensation. (Oh? you say the gash was there before I fell off my chair! How dare you!)

 

Yet, as I reconnoiter, I realize that B&M also do a very bad job with buffalo nickel color, and nickels, I think, in general. They are where I acquired the infamous cigarette smoking Indian nickel. In their original pic (I wish I had a copy), the carbon spot on the lips of the Indian was almost invisible and the PVC was not visible at all! They tend to reduce the color of the coins to the point that they are almost monochromatic pictures. Not good.

 

Now, my address is...

 

Hoot

[Hoot]

That's the day the music died. So, bye bye Miss American Pie. Drove my Chevy to the levee ...

 

Stop it EVP! You go from physical reaction to dejected sadness all in the same thread! TDN will simply have to buy you one coin for each he buys! YES YES! A deal in the works! (I guess you'll have to get creative ) (Hey, Caitlin has threatened that she's going to post her buffalo nickel set over here in a few months! I'm toast when that happens! )

 

Hoot

[Sunnywood]

Hi Hoot,

 

Glad you got here I wanted to hear your reaction to these coins !!! Sorry about the head injury though. I'm not sure EVP's dog can help you with that problem.

 

EVP, now that we know why you are so attached to your dog, I can't imagine that TDN's foray into MS seated dollars should bother you. After all, whenever you're feeling down, all you have to do is call the dog !!

 

Besides, I'd rather have a friend or acquaintance own all the cool coins, ratherthan a stranger. The two of you can corner the market. TDN can buy all the finest knowns, and you can buy all the second finest knowns !!! Heck, when I start buying again (someday - but not anytime soon) maybe I will do MS seated dollars too !!!

 

Sunnywood

 

[EVillageProwler]

maybe I will do MS seated dollars too

 

Starry, starry night,

Paint your palette blue and grey...

 

EVP

 

[cladking]

That '72 dollar reverse is fantastic. Beyond description.

[Tradedollarnut]

Perhaps EVP will get so depressed he cuts off an ear?

 

either that or go on medication that gives him hallucinations - might even make him believe that those ebay toned raw coins are real!

[Hoot]

You had best watch out what you say, TDN, or you'll end up with an ear in your mailbox (with dog hair stuck to it). Poor guy, I think you may have done him harm!

 

Hoot

[Sunnywood]

One of the staff members at B&M saw this thread (and a similar one across the street), and sent me an e-mail in response. He also posted a response across the street (under the name Photoman).

 

Photoman points out correctly that most of the prior photographs were taken before the coins were ever slabbed. I had not considered this point !!! It is apparently much more difficult to capture the colors of toned proof silver coins when they are encapsulated. Raw coins photograph beautifully by comparison.

 

So, my apologies to the staff at B&M for being a bit too hasty in my judgment. I will still say, however, that some of the West coast auction houses do seem to have a little bit more success at capturing colorful toning in their photographs, even for slabbed coins. So anyway it is something to consider !!

 

I will also reaffirm that B&M has been in my opinion the finest numismatic auction house in the country. I extend my best wishes to all the staff there as they adjust to the recent changes. Even with Dave gone, the team he assembled continues their fine work.

 

Sunnywood

 

[BankNote1]

Color can be captured with a coin in a slab as well! It might be a little harder to do but it can be done. Just take a look at the toned slabed coins on ebay. If you want to see what an auction house can do with toned coins take a look at the Benson Collection by Ira and Larry Goldberg Coins...Super photos...

[Sunnywood]

Monty,

 

In case you missed it, four of the proof seated dollars pictured earlier in this thread were from the Benson Collection, and the photos shown above are the ones taken by the Goldbergs. However, The Benson Collection, like the Childs Collection, was not certified when it was first received by the auction house. The coins were photographed first, then encapsulated by PCGS.

 

The Vermeule Collection, and the other coins auctioned at that sale, were of course presented raw, as is typical of Stack's. (Some people say this is because Stack's gets lots of consignments from "old time" collectors who don't like slabs, while others say Stack's is a dumping ground for coins that didn't make the desired grade when the crackout guys sent them to the services. Actually, neither is consistently the case.)

 

Sunnywood

 

 

 

 

 

[Tradedollarnut]

I agree it's more difficult, but not impossible and should definitely not be outside the capabilities of a top tier auction house. Many of the board members seem to run circles around the capabilities of B&M. With the internet becoming more and more of a factor, they must improve or fall further behind!

[Sunnywood]

OK I am reactivating this thread, as it is now Saturday morning, the day that these coins will be auctioned in Baltimore. EVP or anyone else in Baltimore, if you see this, and you're on the scene there ... did you get to see the coins in person? Let me know how they do in the floor bidding tonight !!!

 

Lot #'s 4048, 4052, 4053, 4056, 4058, 4062, 4071, 4076

 

Thanks,

Sunnywood

 

 

[EVillageProwler]

Sunnywood:

 

#4048: $10K

#4052: $20K

#4053: $4750

#4056: $11K

#4058: $7K

#4062: $10K

#4071:

#4076:

 

All amounts are the last recorded bid for the lot. My numbers are suspect, as I sit near a friend who likes to talk while I'm trying to concentrate. Also, Big John from Scorpio also distracted me briefly...

 

EVP

 

[Sunnywood]

Hi EVP,

 

Thanks for the notes ... tomorrow morning I'll find out how accurate your notekeeping was =)

 

SO ... what did you get ? Anything good ?