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QA - stickers for "modern" coins...

Started by brg5658,

16 posts in this topic

brg5658

brg5658

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...ok...some discussion specifics...

 

In the press release, it states that "The company expects less than one-half of one percent of submissions will receive the special sticker.".

 

How could they have such a guess of approval rates? And, furthermore, at $12.50 a pop and an expectation of 1/200 qualifying for the special sticker -- how does this make sense? For those of you who are bad at math -- that's one special sticker for every $2,500 in submission fees....

 

...are they serious?

 

screwy_emoticon_zpsfb165203.gif

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World Colonial

World Colonial

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I believe the CAC model where they make a market in the coins they sticker can work, but I agree that 1/200 isn't likely to drive much submisison volume. What is the "bean rate" for CAC?

 

Without a market making role, I don't see much value in it. Reminds me of WINGS for world coins. I wouldn't pay a dime in premium as a result of that opinion.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
...ok...some discussion specifics...

 

In the press release, it states that "The company expects less than one-half of one percent of submissions will receive the special sticker.".

 

How could they have such a guess of approval rates? And, furthermore, at $12.50 a pop and an expectation of 1/200 qualifying for the special sticker -- how does this make sense? For those of you who are bad at math -- that's one special sticker for every $2,500 in submission fees....

 

...are they serious?

 

screwy_emoticon_zpsfb165203.gif

 

I think you misread the site. They have a sticker for coins that are solid for the grade and a special sticker for coins that have special traits and meet or exceed their standards.

 

http://qacoins.com/grading-criteria/

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brg5658

brg5658

Posted
  • Author
Posted
...ok...some discussion specifics...

 

In the press release, it states that "The company expects less than one-half of one percent of submissions will receive the special sticker.".

 

How could they have such a guess of approval rates? And, furthermore, at $12.50 a pop and an expectation of 1/200 qualifying for the special sticker -- how does this make sense? For those of you who are bad at math -- that's one special sticker for every $2,500 in submission fees....

 

...are they serious?

 

screwy_emoticon_zpsfb165203.gif

 

I think you misread the site. They have a sticker for coins that are solid for the grade and a special sticker for coins that have special traits and meet or exceed their standards.

 

http://qacoins.com/grading-criteria/

 

Oh, well, that clarifies it. I read everything that was on the site.

 

They are very vague in what comprises the "special sticker" -- but they claim up front that approximately 1/200 coins will receive it. How can they know that < 1% of coins submitted will meet these criteria when they haven't even started stickering coins? It doesn't make any sense. Also, if I'm reading it correctly, it's $12.50 a coin, regardless of if the coin doesn't sticker, get's the standard sticker, or gets the super special extra cool select sticker. It's completely stupid to say that a coin is in the top 1% of the assigned grade. As if they can tell a 65.99 apart from the 65.98...

 

 

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
...ok...some discussion specifics...

 

In the press release, it states that "The company expects less than one-half of one percent of submissions will receive the special sticker.".

 

How could they have such a guess of approval rates? And, furthermore, at $12.50 a pop and an expectation of 1/200 qualifying for the special sticker -- how does this make sense? For those of you who are bad at math -- that's one special sticker for every $2,500 in submission fees....

 

...are they serious?

 

screwy_emoticon_zpsfb165203.gif

 

I think you misread the site. They have a sticker for coins that are solid for the grade and a special sticker for coins that have special traits and meet or exceed their standards.

 

http://qacoins.com/grading-criteria/

 

Oh, well, that clarifies it. I read everything that was on the site.

 

They are very vague in what comprises the "special sticker" -- but they claim up front that approximately 1/200 coins will receive it. How can they know that < 1% of coins submitted will meet these criteria when they haven't even started stickering coins? It doesn't make any sense. Also, if I'm reading it correctly, it's $12.50 a coin, regardless of if the coin doesn't sticker, get's the standard sticker, or gets the super special extra cool select sticker. It's completely stupid to say that a coin is in the top 1% of the assigned grade. As if they can tell a 65.99 apart from the 65.98...

 

 

I agree that it could be clearer. I do not believe that it means that the company thinks it is in the top 1% grade wise. I think it means that that the coin meets or exceeds their standards and has some superlative such as excellent eye appeal that puts it in the top 1% over all. For instance, one of the dealers who started the group deals heavily with 1950-1972 cameo coinage. I'm not sure if you are familiar with it, but if you are, you know that there is an enormous range of contrast among cameo and DCAM/UCAM coins that has varied even more than for some of the classic coin series. I would say that 80-85+% or so of the coins in cameo holders probably only possess marginal contrasts and hold back coins with superior frost that don't quite make ultra, for instance. And with variability in standards, there are many Ultra/DCAM pieces that I don't think would be designated as such today. Both NGC and PCGS appear to have tightened their cameo and DCAM/UCAM designations in the last 2-3 years.

 

I think the company could also fill gaps left by CAC in the Roosevelt (MS/PF), Jefferson NickelMS/PF), and late proof wheat/early memorial cameo coinage. Additionally, and I know that this will be controversial, but I do think there are pronounced differences between the services and how they grade moderns. I do think PCGS is a bit tighter by 3/4 to a full point for many series. Once upon a time I dabbled in Jeffersons, and I would say on average, there is a 1 point difference, in my opinion. NGC is more forgiving of so called "planchet roughness" and marks that PCGS penalizes more heavily. I also think PCGS is about 3/4 of a point tighter on Roosevelt Dimes. There are also differences in the strike designations, and I would say, on average, NGC is tougher on strike designations. Again, this is all based on my observations and your mileage may vary. I think the service could help equalize the pricing disparities between PCGS and NGC moderns.

 

Finally, I agree with World Colonial. The company has a chance to find a market niche (probably more so on Ikes and pre 1970 coinage) if it is able to create a strong network of market makers for its product. This is why I believe that CAC was/is so successful. If Sego and his crew can create a market maker, it will stabilize the market on moderns and would establish his company as a major market force. Interestingly, he has indicated that his intent is for private (i.e. not QA itself) to act as market makers.

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World Colonial

World Colonial

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I agree with your sentiments.

 

In prior posts, I have mentioned five specialties which I believe are the only circulation strikes which are likely to achieve the financial potential hoped for by the proponents of these coins.

 

I believe this service can make a difference on two or maybe three. These are "conditional rarities" first, "special designation strikes" second (like the FT or FB on the FDR dime) and maybe toned coins though I believe the potential is not as great on this last one. The other two are errors and die varieties but I don't think this service will matter at all to them outside of overlap with another one, such as a die variety which is also in a premium grade.

 

I have not commented on proofs before but I agree with you on CAM/DCAM and "conditional rarity" specimens.

 

Its also possible that coins one grade below "conditional rarity" may benefit as candidates for an upgrade.

 

For all others, I don't believe this service will either matter at all or the benefit will be financially irrelevant.

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World Colonial

World Colonial

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How many split hares does it take before you have soup?

 

If I understand your sentiments with this comment correctly, I agree these sticker practices (CAC and otherwise) are farcical from a collecting standpoint. No different than the trivial differences in eye appeal with two proximate MS grades (whether "conditional rarity" or otherwise) and strike quality. Same goes for the absurd price differences that go with these specialization practices for coins which are otherwise common.

 

Its all about the money.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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How many split hares does it take before you have soup?

There are some who continue to tell "us" that we need more and more opinions on a coin's grade. I, personally, intend to draw the line at eighty-three opinions.

 

Any more beyond that is probably too many.

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19Lyds

19Lyds

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Oh Jeez.

 

Here you go again with the elitist smarter than thou attitudes that suck up to each other and how freaking smart you are!

 

CAC received similar smart comments when it came out and yet, here it is, readily acceptable if not demanded in the market place and since CAC does not sticker modern coins, there is as much need for this on moderns as there is for the other . Moderns can be over graded and over attributed as much as the next coin. There is a definite need for higher end modern coins.

 

Why do you people have to p!ss all over every new idea that comes along?

 

Does it make you feel better?

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Well personally, I couldn't care any less about this company's idea here, I couldn't care less about CAC, or any other "pay for opinion" operations.... (not including our gracious hosts here, or the guys ATS- I do see the value in what they do and would hate to see a market without certified coins...)

 

That said, we can all see with our own eyes that the market supports and relies heavily on a company like CAC. Now, for me, I personally deal in moderns for the most part..... I guarantee I have heard at least 100 times, "I WISH CAC WOULD ACCEPT MODERN COINS FOR CAC CONSIDERATION" They do not accept Kennedys, and for all the guys who like to have CAC coins in their collections, lets say they collect top pop proofs starting w/FRanklins, well, guys like this would support the idea of a "CAC" for moderns.....

 

Not saying it is or isn't, should or shouldn't, just saying I wouldn't be surprised if the market accepts and supports with loving arms this concept.

 

 

WHY ALL THE HATERS??? WHY CRY ABOUT IT AND BOO-HOO ABOUT IT? WHY INSIST ON SHARING YOUR NEGATIVE, PESSIMISTIC, AND DEGRADING VIEWS/OPINIONS??? WHO CARES? IFYOU DONT AGREE WITH THE SERVICE THIS COMPANY IS OFFERING, THAN WHY NOT JUST MAKE THE PERSONAL CHOICE TO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM?? I DONT GET WHY SO MANY OF YOU SPEND SO MUCH TIME AND ENERGY BEING SO NEGATIVE/SPITEFUL/PESSIMISTIC/ETC....

 

THE COIN BUSINESS/HOBBY JUST HAS SO MUCH AWESOMENESS ABOUT IT TO BE PLAGUED WITH THE HATE ALL THE TIME.

 

 

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