1917 Lincoln

[ThosArch-migration]

Scott Travers in his book "Coin Collectors Survival Manual" mentions that the depressed line on the reverse of the buffalo nickel around 8 o'clock also appears on 1913 type two, 1914, and 1915 buffalo nickel business strikes. And I have located all of these aforementioned business strikes with this straight line. Also had an exceptional 1915-s ngc ms64 proof like buff with this straight line. I have seen in print that there were supposedly proof dies used to strike some 1915-s and 1917-s buff business strikes. One further point, there was a slick ebay seller a few years ago trying to peddle business strike buffaloes with this straight line as proofs.

[RWB]

As an aside to the Buffalo nickel comments - it appears that engraver Barber began each year with a dateless design master die, then added the date by hand. That explains the carry-forward of defects in the design master die to coins with different dates. (It also explains the wandering of dates on some of the new renaissance designs.)

[ThosArch-migration]

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[RWB]

Yep---that one has been bouncing around for a long time, too. Neither NGC or PCGS will touch it. A PCGS poster has been pumping this dog for a long time

 

One difficulty is that very few modern collectors have seen a traditional coin made from new dies....They don't look like what we are accustomed to seeing -- much better detail and different surfaces.

 

[ThosArch-migration]

Those with an open mind to 1917 proof coinage can go to the website www.seymourwampum.com to learn more about 1917 proof, specimen or

presentation coinage. As a note aside I have seen the 1917 matte proof

Standing Liberty Quarter that the above has slabbed. A no question proof.

(Only problem it had it was cleaned at one time.)

ANACS has also slabbed two 1917 Walking Liberty Halves as

presentation pieces, i.e. coins not business strikes.

[RWB]

....the major authentication services disagree. Also, there is considerable difference between having a open mind, and being empty headed, Buffnixx. You have a faith-based need to believe something exists, so by definition of faith there is no argument of any kind that will change the belief.

 

Nothing more to add from me.

[coinquest1961-migration]

The solution should be simple-round all of these alleged proofs up and allow them to be examined by at least two well regarded experts on matte proofs. Remember-the rims and edges would also have to be examined which would necessitate removal from the slabs that proclaim the to be "matte proofs." Could this be one reason that it hasn't been done?

 

As far as strike-not all proofs are fully struck-many 1937 Buffalos and some Walkers are certainly not. I have had examples of both.

[MarkFeld]

The solution should be simple-round all of these alleged proofs up and allow them to be examined by at least two well regarded experts on matte proofs. Remember-the rims and edges would also have to be examined which would necessitate removal from the slabs that proclaim the to be "matte proofs." Could this be one reason that it hasn't been done?

 

As far as strike-not all proofs are fully struck-many 1937 Buffalos and some Walkers are certainly not. I have had examples of both.

 

While there are brilliant Proofs from that era which are other than sharply struck, I don't know that to be the case with the earlier matte Proof coins.

[RWB]

The rejection rate was 40 to 50 percent for silver and minor proof coins. Substandard pieces were counted with regular production and those not suitable for circulation were destroyed. [Per asst Coiner Robert Clark]

 

We have no information on the criteria used in inspecting proof coins, but Mark's comment applies to any era and suggests it was an individual decision by the examiners. (Actually, the Adjusters did this.)

[coinquest1961-migration]

The solution should be simple-round all of these alleged proofs up and allow them to be examined by at least two well regarded experts on matte proofs. Remember-the rims and edges would also have to be examined which would necessitate removal from the slabs that proclaim the to be "matte proofs." Could this be one reason that it hasn't been done?

 

As far as strike-not all proofs are fully struck-many 1937 Buffalos and some Walkers are certainly not. I have had examples of both.

 

While there are brilliant Proofs from that era which are other than sharply struck, I don't know that to be the case with the earlier matte Proof coins.

 

I've done a very extensive strike study on Buffalo nickels and it is true that incomplete strikes on the matte proofs are much less frequently seen than on the brilliant proofs. But it still occurs on around 5% of the MP. In fact, I've seen a certified 1913 Var 2 and 1914 that was no better than a typically struck business strike coin. The 1936 BP is usually found with a full strike but a MAJORITY of the 1937 issue is found without full detailing.

[Conder101]

In fact, I've seen a certified 1913 Var 2 and 1914 that was no better than a typically struck business strike coin.

Maybe they WERE just business strikes. (I know heresy, How dare I question the opinion of the grading gods.)

[RWB]

Heresy!! The Grand Grading Inquisitor shall -----

 

Burn him with a slab sealer!

 

Suffocate him with stickers!

 

Impale him on a + !

 

The Great Grading Gods never lie, and are never wrong, ever. ver, ev,....well sometimes maybe if it's a bad day or raining or there's a skunk outside the glass enclosed executive suite.......

[coinquest1961-migration]

If so someone got taken. They were sold as proofs. I sure wouldn't have paid anywhere near proof money for either. I have an image of the 1914 in my book-I'll post it once I get my 1916 3 legged image posted here.