When were the terms "Roman proof" and "wire edge" first used?

[RWB]

I see them misused in a lot of Wally Breen's publications, but I'd like to know when each of the terms first appeared in print, and who originated them?

 

Both terms are associated with gold proof coins, as well as other coins.

 

(The Harry Bass Numismatic Index of Periodicals (NIP) at ANA is a dead link.)

[RWB]

No takers? I don't know the answer.

[AegisIII]

I checked a few 1920s-1940s auction catalogs. Most turned out to be irrelevant. Mehl's Dunham (1941) and Geiss (1948) catalogs do not use the term "roman proof" or similar. He did use "sandblast proof" for the gold proofs of 1908 and 1911-15; I'm sure you'd like that.

 

He used "wire edge" in regards with the 1907 high relief double eagles, but also for other coins showing finning. His opposing term for the high reliefs was "beveled edge".

 

 

[RWB]

Thanks! Very helpful. The Green gold catalog from Mehl (1947) has similar usage. Your info narrows it down to post-war for "Roman" and pre-war for "wire edge."

 

Yes, "sand blast" or "sandblast" was the normal term until after WW-II.

[RWB]

Any other ideas for the first use of "Roman" when referring to a gold proof coin?

[WoodenJefferson]

I couldn't even begin to tell you when 'wire edge' was first used in print, but 50 years ago it was referred to as a 'wire rim' in conversation, not edge.

[dadams]

I found "Wire Edge" referenced in The Numismatist from JAN 1908

 

NUMISMATIC VOCABULARY TERM: WIRE EDGE

 

 

Edited to add a thought: The Garrett Collection had a couple so-called Roman Proofs in the collection (1909 Roman Proof. From H. Chapman on January 23, 1913. &

1910 Roman Proof. From H. Chapman on December 10, 1910, directly from the Mint.) So you might check Chapman/Garrett correspondence

[RWB]

So far, I ave not been able to find "Roman proof" in any document until after WW-II. But I have also not located the first use of the term AFTER WW-II.