Opinions on this three cent silver?

[RGT]

What do you think about this coin? Pretty? Ugly? NT? AT? Grade? Fishing lure?

 

 

[Hoot]

Michael?!!! Calling Michael!!!

 

It's a pretty AU piece to me and it looks re-toned from a previous cleaning. Looks like some light scratches on the obverse at 5 o'clock and the reverse in the central area. Some interesting die clash impressions. Not the best strike, looking at the stars on the reverse. Overall attractive enough, but nothing I'd pay a premium price for.

 

Hoot

[Wihlborg]

Dang-nab-it Hoot! You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

John

[chinook]

I like it. But I think I would grade it higher. 64?

[reid1836]

A very nice coin. Technical grade, I`d have to give it an AU-55. The toning appears to be a retone from a previous cleaning using a brightening solution(dip) of sorts. But it`s still an attractive piece with great details.

[Oldtrader3]

Heavy die clashes and retoned. Type III coins are often weak strikes. I would agree that it is AU55/58.

[wingedliberty-migration]

I agree, gorgeous coin. My grade would be MS-61

[michael]

It's a pretty AU piece to me and it looks re-toned from a previous cleaning. Looks like some light scratches on the obverse at 5 o'clock and the reverse in the central area. Some interesting die clash impressions. Not the best strike, looking at the stars on the reverse. Overall attractive enough

 

Hoot

_____________________________________________________

 

hoot

you are an incredible advanced collector i think you summed things up well

 

and you are humble too and i always learn from you

 

michael

[James_OldeTowne]

Very, very attractive coin. I would grade it MS-62.

 

James

[RGT]

Thanks for all the inputs. I really like these tiny coins but I have trouble grading them. I think the size and the strike problems make it a difficult series.

 

This coin is in an old NGC holder graded MS64. It's a recent purchase off of ebay. I've never really seen too many coins with pastel toning. I like the looks of it but I was a bit suspicious. The coin has nice luster and I think it's MS but I'm not sure it's techically a 64. Maybe the luster and toning gave it a boost or maybe it was just a bad day at NGC.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

On the contrary, that bluish hue is a good sign that this coin has not been messed with. My experience is that IIIcn's, especially proofs, are frequently toned that way, perhaps due to the lower-grade silver content. I missed the grade by a couple of points, but couldn't argue with it!

 

James

[EVillageProwler]

The coin has nice luster and I think it's MS but I'm not sure it's techically a 64. Maybe the luster and toning gave it a boost or maybe it was just a bad day at NGC.

 

RGT,

 

Don't stress too much over the opinions given in this thread. I know many of these folks, and respect them too. But -- BUT -- they will readily admit that they cannot really grade off an blown up digital image.

 

Maybe they are right on, and maybe they are not.

 

Some things to keep in mind: very hard to ascertain proper luster off an image, all marks are enhanced because of the size of the image, can't tell hairlines and trace rub from an image, can't tell depth of color (i.e., if A/T) from an image, and different people grade with different standards (i.e., a Morgan $ collector would fail miserably when grading Mercs).

 

I will say that this date is one of those known for not being fully struck. So, don't let the weakness of strike throw you.

 

EVP

[Tradedollarnut]

There's nothing on that coin to preclude MS64. Nice looking coin.

[Hoot]

The coin has nice luster and I think it's MS but I'm not sure it's techically a 64. Maybe the luster and toning gave it a boost or maybe it was just a bad day at NGC.

 

RGT,

 

Don't stress too much over the opinions given in this thread. I know many of these folks, and respect them too. But -- BUT -- they will readily admit that they cannot really grade off an blown up digital image.

 

Maybe they are right on, and maybe they are not.

 

Some things to keep in mind: very hard to ascertain proper luster off an image, all marks are enhanced because of the size of the image, can't tell hairlines and trace rub from an image, can't tell depth of color (i.e., if A/T) from an image, and different people grade with different standards (i.e., a Morgan $ collector would fail miserably when grading Mercs).

 

I will say that this date is one of those known for not being fully struck. So, don't let the weakness of strike throw you.

 

EVP

 

Excellent points EVP.

 

Hoot

[RGT]

EVP,

 

I'm not going to stress over opinions on this coin. I've got plenty of other things to stress about.

 

I'm trying to improve my picture taking and I know it's very difficult to get detail, color and luster all in one picture. I was trying to get the detail and color here.

 

When I received the coin I was pleased with the color and the coin in general. But a day or two ago I read a post (maybe across the street) where someone said these type of colors are from retoning after dipping or cleaning (can't recall exactly what was said and can't find the post). I just wanted to get some opinions on the color and the coin in general here. I respect the opinions here even though I know not everyone here is an expert on three cent silvers.

 

I actually thought this coin was fairly well struck. I've seen many worse and few better. Maybe I just get to see the weak ones and all the nicely struck ones are in those registry set that don't bother with pictures.

 

I'm trying to learn about the series but I can't find much written on these tiny coins.

 

BTW, I didn't pay a premium for the color but I did pay an MS64 price. The scratches and marks are there but the are a bit larger in the pictures than on the coin.

 

For anyone interested, I just got my last trime uploaded into my new registry set yesterday. I only have seven coins so far and some of them are not all that great looking. But everybody has to start somewhere.

 

Trimes

[TomB]

I came to this thread way late but I can honestly tell you that my inclination was that the coin was MS, mushy and that it had toning I have seen before on these coins. Anything else would really be a stretch on a coin blown up this much.

[EVillageProwler]

Excellent points EVP.

 

Of course. Did you expect anything else?

 

 

NBB, anyone?

 

EVP

[BankNote1]

I couldn't grade a TCS if my life depended on it. I do think you photos are super!

I would like to know what lighting you used in your photo? I have mucho trouble with photoing toned coins.

[michael]

for me from the photo and sight seen might be different

 

it is a coin that has rub and slightly circulated

 

au-62

 

and from the colors from the scan looks to be dipped and retoned and the coin is not lower grade silver it is .900 fine like most all other post civil war silver coinage

 

and evp is correct about judging a coin and its colors from a scan

but overall the way the coin looks the rims the obverse fields and the toning/corrosion? on the reverse this coin for me is again not quite mintstate but better than au

 

so

 

au-62

 

and from the scan the purple pink at 9pm on the obverse is definately dipped white then secondary toning to me

 

the coin is a neat nice coin and it is again for me a liner

 

au-62 coin but bottom line is is only an au in my opinion/au-62

 

 

but bottom line this coin is a nice looking $250 coin

if i was asked to grade this coin this is what i grade it a great nice looking $250 coin

 

and if a sold it and i had to put a grade on the holder i would put au-62

 

michael

 

 

 

[RGT]

BankNote1,

 

I've tried halogen lights and Ott lights but I seem to get the most correct color using Reveal bulbs, which is what I was using for those pictures. I was using a single bulb and I think I need a better light set-up where I can use two.

 

Michael,

 

I can't rule out any chance the coin was dipped and retoned based on my experience, which is one of the reasons for this thread. I would gladly let NGC downgrade this coin to the consensus level and pay me the difference. But I won't send it in because I doubt they would downgrade it. Also I've never sent a coin in myself and I doubt the local dealer would want to send it in for me for a review.

 

I got the colors as close as I could in my picture, but of course they aren't exact. I think I'll take it to the next local club meeting. I know a member who has owned several high grade toned 3CSs who can give me an in-hand opinion.

 

Man you guys are tough. Everybody's telling me it's a weak strike too. It's bad when the nickel collectors start telling me my coins are weak. Almost all of these are weak.

 

Ok, I managed to get all seven of my trimes into a registry set. Go take a look. This is one of the better struck coins. Look at that 1856. Then you can talk to me about a weak strike. Wasn't there supposed to be some stars around the rim....

 

Trime registry set

[Tradedollarnut]

There's nothing wrong with that trime. Depending on the luster, it could even go up if the lines to the right of the date aren't as bad as they look.

 

Don't worry - be happy! I like that pastel look a lot. Here's mine:

 

Koshkarian 1851

[chinook]

Whoo hoo!!!! I guessed right.

 

I think the coin is very attractive and original. I would also say that it is fairly well struck. I dont see any signs of wear or circulation.

 

I also do not think it would be graded lower on a regrade attempt. If you get tired of looking at it send me a PM.

[BankNote1]

RGT, Thanks on the info on your lighting.

If you sent the coin in NGC might up-grade it! It is in an old holder!

[Oldtrader3]

Let's keep this thread open a little longer. Here are a couple other 3cs's to look at, just for laughs. The first attachment:

[Oldtrader3]

The second coin attachment (just for laughs):

 

P.S. This coin is so small that my scanner cannot get a perfect image with the PCGS slab. Sorry for the image quality.

[Oldtrader3]

And the reverse of image two.

[Oldtrader3]

Here is another '53 trime just for confusion's sake. Most original Trimes that I have seen are fairly heavily toned, litely struck and die clashed.

[Wihlborg]

RGT,

 

I would like to clarify what my thoughts were about your coin. From the images, I thought it was an AU-58. I still think it was dipped at some time and retoned and I have no problem with that if that is correct. The colors are nice, but nothing that I would pay a premium for. Overall I think it is a very nice coin.

 

With that said, I am in no way surprised to learn that NGC graded it as MS-64. Why? Because it is just about impossible to accurately grade a coin from an image. You can’t judge luster, what looks like light wear may just be shadows, marks may look much worse than they actually are, or be invisible altogether.

 

NGC has had the opportunity to see the coin in hand. If they graded the coin an MS-64 I am confident the coin deserves the grade. To tell the truth, I am not a fan of ‘Guess the grade’ or ‘What would this grade?’ posts for the above reasons.

 

In my opinion, its one thing to know what a coin was graded already and than use images of it to help decide if you agree with the assigned grade such as when looking at a coin on dealer’s web site or in an auction. It is quite a different situation however when you don’t already have the opinion of someone who has looked at the coin in person.

 

Bottom line, enjoy your coin. Just because someone may have thought it differed from its assigned grade going by images does not mean that they were right or that the coin is any less nice than it was when you bought it.

 

John

[James_OldeTowne]

I thought the coin was UNC from the get-go. My guess of only MS-62 was based on what appeared to be muted luster, but you've now explained that the image was biased against showing the luster in order to capture more detail and color. In that case, if we can assume significantly more luster than what the images shows, then I'd definitely up my original guess by one or two points. I do NOT think NGC has overgraded the coin at MS-64.

 

And my guess on value would be at least $500.

 

Oh, and the defects and scratches and such are obviously enormously magnified in the enlargement. They would be microscopic on the coin in hand.

 

James

[Oldtrader3]

I put up the scans of the other Trimes to illustration to show the difficulty of judging scans, secondly to show illustrations of trime toning. The first scan was a white MS64, T-III (probably dipped). The second and third scans are an 1853, AU53, T-I coin that has retoned. The last scan is an 1853, MS64, T-I with natural toning.

 

My experience with originally toned Trimes is that they tend toward dark toning. The Type I coins tend to be brown, yellow and red, possibly because of the 70% silver, copper alloy. Whereas the 90% silver Type II & III coins tend to have mostly blue, gold and red toning.