Things that make you go "Hmmmmm...."

[TonerGuy]

Star 1

 

Star 2

 

Star 3

 

Star 4

 

Star 5

 

Almost Star 6

 

Almost Star 7

 

Those are some great submission results... Thoughts ?

[wdrob]

Arbitrarily placing a star on X amount of submissions. That would be my thought since they placed a star on that 2nd one that looks like Fido's $%* but they passed on the much better looking 6 and 7.

 

And there is not much difference in 3 and 7 either. Yet maybe 70% of the submission was all they agreed upon in advance.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

"Thoughts"?

 

Chances are, the coins look very different in hand and it's silly to make assessments of a coin's star worthiness based on those images.

[messydesk]

My only thought from looking through those is that I don't know how to grade Kennedy halves (other than "not from photos").

[brg5658]

I think the pictures are the problem, not the coins.

 

However, I will say that I got a good chuckle out of the list prices.

[BillJones]

Everyone knows that toned coins are worth a fortune. I don't know why you are not with the program, especially for the one at $6 grand.

 

Although I would view all of them as burials at those prices, I would think that the last would only leave you three feet under instead of 6 to 200 feet under.

 

Sorry, but I have never understood the hyper inflated market for toners.

[Curry]

Not to mention when people pay 4 grand for a common 1881 S morgan just because of monster toning.

[AHFreak]

My thoughts.....

 

those pictures are terrible, and do nothing for those coins, coins that IMO are probably much much nicer looking than the pics would lead you to believe.

 

Also, I think those prices are completely unrealistic, and out of touch with reality....

 

As far as the "stars".... I don't know what you are asking, I think it is very easy to imagine one could send a handful of toners to our hosts for grading, and end up with more stars than non stars....

 

 

[brg5658]

My thoughts.....

 

those pictures are terrible, and do nothing for those coins, coins that IMO are probably much much nicer looking than the pics would lead you to believe.

 

Also, I think those prices are completely unrealistic, and out of touch with reality....

 

As far as the "stars".... I don't know what you are asking, I think it is very easy to imagine one could send a handful of toners to our hosts for grading, and end up with more stars than non stars....

 

 

NGC is actually pretty stingy with the star designation. If you think it's just as easy as sending in a few toned coins and you magically get all stars, then give it a try for yourself.

 

Regardless, those coins are priced at absurd levels -- and, as such, I seriously doubt any will "move" at those levels. That's the seller's prerogative.

[AHFreak]

I have tried it, I have done it, I do it regularly actually...

 

I know that it isn't "easy" or "automatic" to get stars. Somehow you took the context of what I said, and made it seem as if I was implying that getting stars was easy, or automatic, or that any toned coin will get one... I wasn't saying any of those things.

 

All I was saying, is that I personally can see (with ease) how it is be possible for a handful of submitted coins to get stars attributed. some coins are obviously worthy of stars, others are maybes.... If I sent 10 that were "obvious star coins" I would not be surprised when at least 5 came back stars... the trick is finding those obvious star coins.

[brg5658]

I have tried it, I have done it, I do it regularly actually...

 

I know that it isn't "easy" or "automatic" to get stars. Somehow you took the context of what I said, and made it seem as if I was implying that getting stars was easy, or automatic, or that any toned coin will get one... I wasn't saying any of those things.

 

All I was saying, is that I personally can see (with ease) how it is be possible for a handful of submitted coins to get stars attributed. some coins are obviously worthy of stars, others are maybes.... If I sent 10 that were "obvious star coins" I would not be surprised when at least 5 came back stars... the trick is finding those obvious star coins.

 

Well you said this:

 

"...I think it is very easy to imagine one could send a handful of toners to our hosts for grading, and end up with more stars than non stars..."

It's not much of a stretch of my imagination to "read into" that statement that you were saying it was easy...but okay...

 

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

When I entered the thread and read the comments from most I thought the coins would be lightly toned or exhibit really ugly splotchy toning....instead I see attractive examples that I really don't question having stars? This thread is a shocker as I am surprised there is any controversy at all in reference to any of the coins other than high asking prices.

 

What I have learned over the past 3 or 4 years selling some pretty nice toned Kennedy's myself is that that only ones that bring moon money are the 1964 & 1964-D 90% examples. Sure you might occasionally find a monster 40% example but most of them sell to folks that don't know the market that pop a BIN for well above the market price but by in large if it's not a 1964 dated coin....as a seller you are completely wasting your time asking many multiples of guide.

 

The second thing I have learned is that almost all of the monster 40% Kennedy halves I have seen are dated 1968-D or 1969-D....and I almost always see crazy ask prices but I rarely ever see them sell. I see a few priced at crazy levels in NFCs inventory at every FUN show and it's the same ones that aren't selling. As a dealer I can't justify keeping something in inventory at a price level where it doesn't sell for a year or longer but to each his own (thumbs u

 

Here is a good example of one of the 40%'s that is well above average in the eye appeal department and I am not surprised it brought a strong price...

 

1969-D PCGS

[AHFreak]

so even after I clarify what I meant when I said;

 

"...I think it is very easy to imagine one could send a handful of toners to our hosts for grading, and end up with more stars than non stars..."

 

you really find it necessary to take it one step further??? That is the real IMO. So much clowning around on the threads lately.

 

[MarkFeld]

so even after I clarify what I meant when I said;

 

"...I think it is very easy to imagine one could send a handful of toners to our hosts for grading, and end up with more stars than non stars..."

 

you really find it necessary to take it one step further??? That is the real IMO. So much clowning around on the threads lately.

 

I think he was just explaining why he originally interpreted your remarks the way he did. That seemed reasonable to me.

[TonerGuy]

I have tried it, I have done it, I do it regularly actually...

 

I know that it isn't "easy" or "automatic" to get stars.

 

I have made numerous stars but I would never call it easy or say I do it regularly. I made numerous Peace $ * and every time its as though i have hit the lottery. .

 

I posted this just to see what others would think and its ranged quite a bit...

 

I guess the only thing that made me go "hmmmmm....." is how very similar these coins are in toning patterns and colors and most importantly similarity in dates/mint marks...

 

When I see a toned coin the first thing I always wonder is - how the coin got that way - when it comes to toning ? If Ive never see the colors/pattern before I get suspicious. If its several coins of all of the same date & mint mark with the same patterns/colors - I get even more suspicious. If its outrageous colors I get more suspicious. If the colors float even more suspicious... and so forth.

 

So then I start to hypothesize the possibilities - and I go through a progression of thought... album toning, envelope toning, after market holder, ect...

 

And when I see several coins all with the same toning ... alarm bells go off for me. Im not saying the coins are AT and Im not saying they arent MA. Im just saying I go "hmmmmm..."

 

Im at a lost to fully understand the toning on all of the posted coins....

 

Anyone want to offer their guess ?

 

Did anyone besides me become suspicious of the toning once they saw all of the coins ?

[AHFreak]

I thought you may be suspicious about the toning... I actually think it looks a little suspect, but I also have an album (Kennedy half dollars) that has toning very similar to what I can see those look like, (again, those pics sort of suck so its really speculative). But yeah, I think it s next to impossible to say without seeing the coins in-hand.. but yes, I do think the same thought process when I find toners... "how did they get like that", and when it looks like album toning, but there are 3 of the same date/mint, or something like that, it would raise a red flag if nothing else.

 

Id like to see these coins in hand, its hard to imagine based on these pics.

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

I think it's a good idea for folks to use their heads and come up with their own conclusions when it comes to toned coins...right or wrong since no one gets it right 100% including the grading services. For me the colors and patterns don't look suspicious on the Kennedy halves so I like to believe a coin is innocent until proven guilty as far as the nature of the toning. When I pop on the NGC and PCGS forums...almost without question...I see that a coin or group of coins is guessed to be AT until someone can prove otherwise. When I think of albums and or large groups of coins stored together...I find no surprises that coins often tone with similar colors and patterns.

 

Some folks will take it a step further and say well who puts 10 1968-D's in the same album? In my opinion...if the colors and patterns look correct for the denomination then I can not rationally come to the conclusion that because there are multiples...they have to be suspect. Again....if your spending your money on a coin you want to be sure that what your buying is MA...and everyone is free to arrive at that determination in their own way but for me these particular examples don't look suspect and I believe in hand I would feel the same way.

 

I once bought (19) 1969-D Kennedy Halves all with nearly identical toning...all in PCGS holders. I sold them all one by one on Ebay and I had no reservations about the originality of the toning even though it was a large group...nor did PCGS as they were all certified on the same submission. (thumbs u

 

I am sure I could dig up the photos if anyone was interested in seeing them.....though I would say that weren't star quality but rainbow toned non the less.