Who Says Modern Toners Arent Worth Anything !

[cladking]

The appearance of a tarnished coin is entirely subjective. Like many things, it will go in-, and out-of-favor.

 

 

Of course.

 

What people percieve as beautiful or tarnish is subjective.

 

But toners will never go out of favor entirely because some are extremely beautiful.

 

I tend to label far more as "tarnished" than as a "beautifully toner" and silver usually "tones" much nicer than cu/ ni, but beuaty has always been in the eye of the beholder.

[jom]

 

 

The coins I posted were by far more colorful than the 73-D that just sold for $40. I like the 73-D but I wouldnt have paid $40 for it.

 

Link to the thread discussing these?

 

No link...I just mentioned above in this thread I liked the 73D more because I don't care for proof coins in general. But I also disagree with the OP in that I'd would pay $40 for that 73D rather than the price paid for the proofs even if I was interested. Circulation strike clad moderns are generally harder to find like that, IMO.

 

jom

 

 

[jom]

The appearance of a tarnished coin is entirely subjective. Like many things, it will go in-, and out-of-favor.

 

 

Of course.

 

What people percieve as beautiful or tarnish is subjective.

 

But toners will never go out of favor entirely because some are extremely beautiful.

 

I tend to label far more as "tarnished" than as a "beautifully toner" and silver usually "tones" much nicer than cu/ ni, but beuaty has always been in the eye of the beholder.

 

Using the term "tarnish" is often used in a derogatory manner in a way to put down the premiums paid for said coins. I don't know why people get upset over it. No one is forcing them to pay premiums for color...

 

jom

[RWB]

"Toning" is often associated with a pleasant appearance, and "tarnish" is any discoloration due to sulfur, chlorine, oxygen, etc.

 

There appears to be a tendency to call anything that is tarnished, "toned." This would seem to be misleading. Much like calling things "great" that are merely "unusual." A casual look at auction lots from multiple venues demonstrates the proliferation of tarnished coins that sellers are calling "toned." (Of course, this excludes those with fake coloring of various sorts.)

 

For discussion purposes, I used "tarnish" to cover all possibilities - not just the "nice looking" ones.

 

At some distant point, most of the unattractive tarnished coins will have been dipped, and collectors who like toning will have mostly pleasant coins to choose from. That has already happened to a limited extent.

 

Just a clarification.

[TonerGuy]

 

Don't interpret non-specialization with ignorance of the subject matter. And you may very well disagree with my conclusion or statements, but the statements are based on what I have seen pieces sell for. Regardless equating the coins in this thread to the other threads is not realistic. It is a strawman argument crafted to equate disagreeing with you on the value of inferior/qualitatively different to the coins in this thread. It is a logical fallacy at best.

 

Then just answer the questions I asked you ? Thats fairly simply...

 

Then whats your basis of knowledge ?

How many modern toners do you own ?

How often do you buy them ?

How often do you sell them ?

How often do you submit them to NCG and PCGS ?

How often do you track the auction prices of modern toners ?

And why dont you list them as your interest area ?

 

And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter.

 

If I were to choose to a doctor to remove my appendix and he said "golly, you know what I dont really do these surgeries that often" I am going to assume that he doesnt know as much as the appendix surgery specialist.

 

if I were to chose an attorney to litigate my copyright case and she said "well you know I mostly handle car accident cases" I would certainly not rely on their opinion as much as someone that does handle IP litigation regularly.

 

and if I had a rattlesnake infestation at my ranch and I called an exterminator that told me how he's never really captured a wild snake - but he sure does watch a lot of shows on the Animal Planet network - I would call someone else.

 

So when someone says a coins isnt worth a certain price and makes this statement on a public message board and that statement could result in damage to a particular coin, coin seller or segment of the market because that person is "perceived" as an expert.

 

I know NOTHING about DMPL Morgan $ other than seeing a few occasionally in dealer's cases but that doesnt make me well versed enough to say what a particular coin should or shouldnt sell for. I dont buy them, I dont sell them, I dont collect them, I dont track their prices and you are absolutely NEVER going to see me comment about what they are worth. Not only am I ignorant of DMPL Morgans - Im ignorant of toned Morgans as well. Its not what I specialize in.

 

So if you have more than casual observation skills about modern toners - please let us know.

 

I would welcome the ability to debate the merits of modern toners with someone that actually knows the market. As oppose to someone who likes Morgan toners and thinks all toners are all the same.

 

[MarkFeld]

 

Don't interpret non-specialization with ignorance of the subject matter. And you may very well disagree with my conclusion or statements, but the statements are based on what I have seen pieces sell for. Regardless equating the coins in this thread to the other threads is not realistic. It is a strawman argument crafted to equate disagreeing with you on the value of inferior/qualitatively different to the coins in this thread. It is a logical fallacy at best.

 

Then just answer the questions I asked you ? Thats fairly simply...

 

Then whats your basis of knowledge ?

How many modern toners do you own ?

How often do you buy them ?

How often do you sell them ?

How often do you submit them to NCG and PCGS ?

How often do you track the auction prices of modern toners ?

And why dont you list them as your interest area ?

 

And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter.

 

If I were to choose to a doctor to remove my appendix and he said "golly, you know what I dont really do these surgeries that often" I am going to assume that he doesnt know as much as the appendix surgery specialist.

 

if I were to chose an attorney to litigate my copyright case and she said "well you know I mostly handle car accident cases" I would certainly not rely on their opinion as much as someone that does handle IP litigation regularly.

 

and if I had a rattlesnake infestation at my ranch and I called an exterminator that told me how he's never really captured a wild snake - but he sure does watch a lot of shows on the Animal Planet network - I would call someone else.

 

So when someone says a coins isnt worth a certain price and makes this statement on a public message board and that statement could result in damage to a particular coin, coin seller or segment of the market because that person is "perceived" as an expert.

 

I know NOTHING about DMPL Morgan $ other than seeing a few occasionally in dealer's cases but that doesnt make me well versed enough to say what a particular coin should or shouldnt sell for. I dont buy them, I dont sell them, I dont collect them, I dont track their prices and you are absolutely NEVER going to see me comment about what they are worth. Not only am I ignorant of DMPL Morgans - Im ignorant of toned Morgans as well. Its not what I specialize in.

 

So if you have more than casual observation skills about modern toners - please let us know.

 

I would welcome the ability to debate the merits of modern toners with someone that actually knows the market. As oppose to someone who likes Morgan toners and thinks all toners are all the same.

 

Sometimes you ask a lot of questions and not every poster cares to go to the trouble to answer them.

 

I must disagree with this part of your post, in particular: "And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter." You can say it, but often, you will be wrong. I know many collectors and dealers who don't specialize in given types of coins, but who are far from ignorant about them.

[Coinbuf]

I cannot ever recall seeing such an ugly modern certified Lincoln cent before, looks like it was dug out of the ground. Just amazing to me (in a bad way imo) that it would bring that much, I would say this buyer is buried but who knows.

 

Disclaimer for toner guy:

 

I do not participate in the toned market and am not an expert in toned coins or moderns, just expressing my own personal view of one coin.

[AHFreak]

I cannot ever recall seeing such an ugly modern certified Lincoln cent before, looks like it was dug out of the ground. Just amazing to me (in a bad way imo) that it would bring that much, I would say this buyer is buried but who knows.

 

Disclaimer for toner guy:

 

I do not participate in the toned market and am not an expert in toned coins or moderns, just expressing my own personal view of one coin.

 

maybe you should practice "expressing your own personal view of one coin" without going out of your way to be offensive to the "buyer" of said coin.

 

PS-It is hard to imagine buyer being buried too much, since he didn't bid it all the way up to the hammer price all by him or herself.. There is at least one other person who thinks it is worth just as much as the buyer does.... (within 5 bucks or so.... give or take a buck or two.)

 

[robec1347]

I cannot ever recall seeing such an ugly modern certified Lincoln cent before, looks like it was dug out of the ground. Just amazing to me (in a bad way imo) that it would bring that much, I would say this buyer is buried but who knows.

 

Disclaimer for toner guy:

 

I do not participate in the toned market and am not an expert in toned coins or moderns, just expressing my own personal view of one coin.

 

maybe you should practice "expressing your own personal view of one coin" without going out of your way to be offensive to the "buyer" of said coin.

 

PS-It is hard to imagine buyer being buried too much, since he didn't bid it all the way up to the hammer price all by him or herself.. There is at least one other person who thinks it is worth just as much as the buyer does.... (within 5 bucks or so.... give or take a buck or two.)

I was within $5 of the Kennedy's hammer, but that could have been $500 from the winner's maximum.

[jom]

I cannot ever recall seeing such an ugly modern certified Lincoln cent before, looks like it was dug out of the ground. Just amazing to me (in a bad way imo) that it would bring that much, I would say this buyer is buried but who knows.

 

Disclaimer for toner guy:

 

I do not participate in the toned market and am not an expert in toned coins or moderns, just expressing my own personal view of one coin.

 

maybe you should practice "expressing your own personal view of one coin" without going out of your way to be offensive to the "buyer" of said coin.

 

PS-It is hard to imagine buyer being buried too much, since he didn't bid it all the way up to the hammer price all by him or herself.. There is at least one other person who thinks it is worth just as much as the buyer does.... (within 5 bucks or so.... give or take a buck or two.)

 

How was he offensive to the buyer? He may by wrong about the buyer being buried but I don't see how that was offensive.

 

jom

[MarkFeld]

I cannot ever recall seeing such an ugly modern certified Lincoln cent before, looks like it was dug out of the ground. Just amazing to me (in a bad way imo) that it would bring that much, I would say this buyer is buried but who knows.

 

Disclaimer for toner guy:

 

I do not participate in the toned market and am not an expert in toned coins or moderns, just expressing my own personal view of one coin.

 

maybe you should practice "expressing your own personal view of one coin" without going out of your way to be offensive to the "buyer" of said coin.

 

PS-It is hard to imagine buyer being buried too much, since he didn't bid it all the way up to the hammer price all by him or herself.. There is at least one other person who thinks it is worth just as much as the buyer does.... (within 5 bucks or so.... give or take a buck or two.)

 

How was he offensive to the buyer? He may by wrong about the buyer being buried but I don't see how that was offensive.

 

jom

 

My guess is that a number of buyers (and for that matter, non-buyers) might be offended by the post.

 

I'm all for the expression of opinions, as long as they are made in a civil manner. Still, it's difficult to imagine that the poster truly felt the coin "looks like it was dug out of the ground". Perhaps he has had different experiences with coins dug out of he ground. But I have never seen a coin dug out of the ground with an appearance even remotely close to the subject coin. Never mind the additional comment about the buyer being buried in the coin.

[Afterword]

This thread seems to be on a downward spiral that just keeps gaining momentum with each new post.

[TonerGuy]

 

Sometimes you ask a lot of questions and not every poster cares to go to the trouble to answer them.

 

I must disagree with this part of your post, in particular: "And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter." You can say it, but often, you will be wrong. I know many collectors and dealers who don't specialize in given types of coins, but who are far from ignorant about them.

 

Ignorance is a factual determination, not an opinion.

 

If a posters doesnt want to answer my questions when challenged, that is easily remedied by not posting in my threads.

 

I respect you immensely but your statement is a matter of opinion and it should be stated as such - as coinbuf did... Everyone is entitled to have & share their opinion but when you make a statement of fact based on your supposed knowledge then someone might inquire as to what your knowledge is based on.

 

If you really meant to stated it as an opinion that is easily remedied by restating the statement wasnt fact but opinion. I have no issue with someone saying in their opinion modern toners are ugly or in their opinion a certain coin isnt worth their spittle.

[MarkFeld]

 

Sometimes you ask a lot of questions and not every poster cares to go to the trouble to answer them.

 

I must disagree with this part of your post, in particular: "And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter." You can say it, but often, you will be wrong. I know many collectors and dealers who don't specialize in given types of coins, but who are far from ignorant about them.

 

Ignorance is a factual determination, not an opinion.

 

If a posters doesnt want to answer my questions when challenged, that is easily remedied by not posting in my threads.

 

I respect you immensely but your statement is a matter of opinion and it should be stated as such - as coinbuf did... Everyone is entitled to have & share their opinion but when you make a statement of fact based on your supposed knowledge then someone might inquire as to what your knowledge is based on.

 

If you really meant to stated it as an opinion that is easily remedied by restating the statement wasnt fact but opinion. I have no issue with someone saying in their opinion modern toners are ugly or in their opinion a certain coin isnt worth their spittle.

 

Yes, it is my OPINION that many collectors and dealers who don't specialize in given types of coins are far from ignorant about them.

 

You say ignorance is a factual determination. In this case, how do you make that determination? Give a grading test?

[cladking]

 

You say ignorance is a factual determination. In this case, how do you make that determination? Give a grading test?

 

I'm glad someone challenged this statement. The primary difference between ignorance and fact is merely perspective. Anyone can be wrong but most of what makes everyone but ourselves wrong is merely perspective. This applies across the board and even affects questions related to hard science as demonstrated by the inability of experts to agree and the inability to reliably predict the future.

 

I guess you could say ignorance is real but it's "knowledge" that barely exists.

 

Of course this doesn't mean that anyone here is wrong, merely that they are right only from their own perspective.

 

I think you'll win the grading test anyway.

 

Toners can be beautiful but not everyone will like any given example.

 

This thread has done one thing and that's to get me to quit spending moderns that I consider unattractively toned.

[World Colonial]

PS-It is hard to imagine buyer being buried too much, since he didn't bid it all the way up to the hammer price all by him or herself.. There is at least one other person who thinks it is worth just as much as the buyer does.... (within 5 bucks or so.... give or take a buck or two.)

 

I have no idea whether this buyer is "buried" or not. However, just because it took two bidders to achieve the prior price certainly doesn't mean they are not. I have seen this in one of my series (South Africa Union) repeatedly. A coin sells for an outlier (and in my opinion absurd) price which is far above what comporable coins have sold for in the past. No, I don't know how the buyer did financially later but I do know that given the market conditions at the time, that they overpaid for the coin. With many coins profiled on this forum that I think meet this definition, i suspect that the buyer knew they were and still did it anyway because it wasn't about the money.

 

In this particular instance, I don't believe these coins are worth this type of price but then, I don't buy them. At the same time, I don't think they are an outlier when compared to the prices of an innumerable number of other US coins which I consider equally over priced. $1300 i think is a lot of money for this set, but it isn't a lot in the context of what US coins generically cost.

[TonerGuy]

 

Yes, it is my OPINION that many collectors and dealers who don't specialize in given types of coins are far from ignorant about them.

 

You say ignorance is a factual determination. In this case, how do you make that determination? Give a grading test?

 

Sort of yes... but I will go with a form of what has been previously established and is in use - the Frye Test.

 

Paraphrasing...

 

To meet the Frye standard, evidence presented must be interpreted as "generally accepted" by a meaningful segment of the "relative community." This applies to prices, grading or techniques that may be presented in the situation.

 

In practical application of this standard, those who are proponents of a disputed issue had to provide a number of "experts in the relative community" to speak to the validity of their opinion on issue in question.

 

Novel ideas placed under the scrutiny of this standard forced the examination of papers, books and auction sales on the subject at hand to make determinations as to the reliability and "general acceptance."

 

 

[MarkFeld]

 

Yes, it is my OPINION that many collectors and dealers who don't specialize in given types of coins are far from ignorant about them.

 

You say ignorance is a factual determination. In this case, how do you make that determination? Give a grading test?

 

Sort of yes... but I will go with a form of what has been previously established and is in use - the Frye Test.

 

Paraphrasing...

 

To meet the Frye standard, evidence presented must be interpreted as "generally accepted" by a meaningful segment of the "relative community." This applies to prices, grading or techniques that may be presented in the situation.

 

In practical application of this standard, those who are proponents of a disputed issue had to provide a number of "experts in the relative community" to speak to the validity of their opinion on issue in question.

 

Novel ideas placed under the scrutiny of this standard forced the examination of papers, books and auction sales on the subject at hand to make determinations as to the reliability and "general acceptance."

 

 

A grading test would involve grading OPINIONS, with those OPINIONS being compared to other OPINIONS. It woud not involve FACTS.

 

Still, since I do not specialize in most series, I am willing to take a grading test so that you can judge whether I am ignorant about such series and/or whether I am ignorant of their values.

[TonerGuy]

Still, since I do not specialize in most series, I am willing to take a grading test so that you can judge whether I am ignorant about such series and/or whether I am ignorant of their values.

 

Its not a driving test Mark. Its establishing your expertise in a particular area through relative study, research and involvement in the subject matter.

 

For example I dont think anyone would question your area of expertise when it came to coins that you generally bought and sold - 19th to early 20th century coins.

 

I dont think anyone would question CladKing's relative expertise when it comes to the modern market and making top pop coins.

 

Or RWB's expertise in regards to the minting process and Peace $...

 

You or I could pass on test on Peace $ but that doesnt put us in the same class of expertise that Roger has.

 

Agreed ?

[MarkFeld]

Still, since I do not specialize in most series, I am willing to take a grading test so that you can judge whether I am ignorant about such series and/or whether I am ignorant of their values.

 

Its not a driving test Mark. Its establishing your expertise in a particular area through relative study, research and involvement in the subject matter.

 

For example I dont think anyone would question your area of expertise when it came to coins that you generally bought and sold - 19th to early 20th century coins.

 

I dont think anyone would question CladKing's relative expertise when it comes to the modern market and making top pop coins.

 

Or RWB's expertise in regards to the minting process and Peace $...

 

You or I could pass on test on Peace $ but that doesnt put us in the same class of expertise that Roger has.

 

Agreed ?

 

I don't "specialize" in most series, but feel that in many cases, I'm not ignorant of the coins and their values. Ditto for many other collectors and dealers. Your point - and I believe included making assessments of values - with which I took issue was "And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter".

[TonerGuy]

 

I don't "specialize" in most series, but feel that in many cases, I'm not ignorant of the coins and their values. Ditto for many other collectors and dealers. Your point - and I believe included making assessments of values - with which I took issue was "And yes if you dont specialize in something I can say your ignorant of the subject matter".

 

It is a difficult concept to understand. Many years ago I had a gentleman much wiser than I say to me "Son, take credit for your mistakes because they are the only things someone will not try to steal from you."

 

Most people dont understand their limitations and dont take credit for their mistakes though.

 

As Clint Eastwood said in Magnum Force ...

 

[Afterword]

The word ignorant can be quite volatile when not qualified.

[kryptonitecomics]

I know of at least a dozen collectors who would gladly have paid more than $200 for the Lincoln in question. I don't have a problem with the heavy handed comments from those who don't like the coin....have your opinion.

 

What I don't like are those folks who pop into a thread and start talking market values and stating someone might be buried in a coin. Please enlighten me as to your qualifications for making such a market determination? I sell a lot of this type of material and a lot of it goes for moon money whenever I list it so I think I know a bit more than most about true market values for moderns.

 

Also I just checked and there were 5 different bidders who bid $200 or more on the Lincoln.....

[Curry]

I know of at least a dozen collectors who would gladly have paid more than $200 for the Lincoln in question. I don't have a problem with the heavy handed comments from those who don't like the coin....have your opinion.

 

What I don't like are those folks who pop into a thread and start talking market values and stating someone might be buried in a coin. Please enlighten me as to your qualifications for making such a market determination? I sell a lot of this type of material and a lot of it goes for moon money whenever I list it so I think I know a bit more than most about true market values for moderns.

 

Also I just checked and there were 5 different bidders who bid $200 or more on the Lincoln.....

 

It all depends on the buyer.Some buy for the color and others buy for value and getting a good deal.

[Coinbuf]

I know of at least a dozen collectors who would gladly have paid more than $200 for the Lincoln in question. I don't have a problem with the heavy handed comments from those who don't like the coin....have your opinion.

 

What I don't like are those folks who pop into a thread and start talking market values and stating someone might be buried in a coin. Please enlighten me as to your qualifications for making such a market determination? I sell a lot of this type of material and a lot of it goes for moon money whenever I list it so I think I know a bit more than most about true market values for moderns.

 

Also I just checked and there were 5 different bidders who bid $200 or more on the Lincoln.....

 

So as one of those you don't like I'm wondering how many of those 5 different bidders were also bidders on all the other coins. What I'm driving at is were these bidders really after that coin only or were they after the complete set. Also how many of those 5 were willing to go past the $300 level? It's very easy for you to pop in and throw out some numbers but that's quite meaningless without some context and background to have a better understanding of the whole bidding story.

 

And come to think of it why is it that only 5 bidders went above $200 if you know of at least a dozen that would have paid more than $200 for it? It would seem that you know of at least 7 people that sat on their hands which I find odd given that you feel this was such a desirable coin. Please enlighten me as you know so much about this section of the market.

 

Edited to add:

In response to your question about my qualifications as to market value I have already said that this is not a part of the market I participate in. But I do feel that on this single coin the buyer may be buried, maybe not as a set but as a single coin yes. You said yourself that you felt the prices would be higher selling the set at the same time. Of course the only way to prove you or I correct is to sell this coin by itself, which cannot be done so it just comes down to my opinion vs yours.

[bochiman]

Always good to see threads with nice coins.

 

It's just too bad when they degenerate with posters who feel they must impress upon everyone else how much they know the market, or how ignorant others are.

 

I learned some years back that, on the internet (and even in person), there are a lot of "experts" and people that are skilled at expert bullying of others. One of the tactics I have seen in bullying is to continually push for "proof" of something.

 

Fun thing about toning and grading.....they are OPINIONS. No proof needed for opinions.

 

As for the rest of it, to some folks, the amount paid is pure "fun money". I am sure there are enough folks that have that amount of fun money that would pay that price again....the trick is just to have the right time/right venue. They would need to know about, or remember, the auction and go for it then.

 

At the end of the day, and I say this as a collector of toned coins, who friggin' cares if someone comes on and states their opinion and it doesn't agree with yours? If someone says people overpaid....so what! Too many trolls and troll repliers. Just let it go and smile.

I've overpaid (by some folks' standards) on toned coins. I have a budget for myself and a limit to the "fun money" for them, but if they fall within that amount, then I am fine...whether I overpaid or not. WHO CARES?

 

As for the "if you don't like it, then don't post your opinions in my thread" bit. Bleh. There are many I wish wouldn't post in my threads, but it is their right to do so on these, and PCGS's, forums. So, I create less threads so I don't have to see their garbage...but it isn't my ability or right to keep them from posting their garbage in my threads. If I wanted that ability, I would create my own forum and administer it. If you don't do that, don't complain (unless you get a kick and a thrill out of complaining about it....then rock on)

[TonerGuy]

I know of at least a dozen collectors who would gladly have paid more than $200 for the Lincoln in question. I don't have a problem with the heavy handed comments from those who don't like the coin....have your opinion.

 

What I don't like are those folks who pop into a thread and start talking market values and stating someone might be buried in a coin. Please enlighten me as to your qualifications for making such a market determination? I sell a lot of this type of material and a lot of it goes for moon money whenever I list it so I think I know a bit more than most about true market values for moderns.

 

Also I just checked and there were 5 different bidders who bid $200 or more on the Lincoln.....

 

+1

[dimefreak]

I know of at least a dozen collectors who would gladly have paid more than $200 for the Lincoln in question. I don't have a problem with the heavy handed comments from those who don't like the coin....have your opinion.

 

What I don't like are those folks who pop into a thread and start talking market values and stating someone might be buried in a coin. Please enlighten me as to your qualifications for making such a market determination? I sell a lot of this type of material and a lot of it goes for moon money whenever I list it so I think I know a bit more than most about true market values for moderns.

 

Also I just checked and there were 5 different bidders who bid $200 or more on the Lincoln.....

 

 

 

So as one of those you don't like I'm wondering how many of those 5 different bidders were also bidders on all the other coins. What I'm driving at is were these bidders really after that coin only or were they after the complete set. Also how many of those 5 were willing to go past the $300 level? It's very easy for you to pop in and throw out some numbers but that's quite meaningless without some context and background to have a better understanding of the whole bidding story.

 

And come to think of it why is it that only 5 bidders went above $200 if you know of at least a dozen that would have paid more than $200 for it? It would seem that you know of at least 7 people that sat on their hands which I find odd given that you feel this was such a desirable coin. Please enlighten me as you know so much about this section of the market.

 

Edited to add:

In response to your question about my qualifications as to market value I have already said that this is not a part of the market I participate in. But I do feel that on this single coin the buyer may be buried, maybe not as a set but as a single coin yes. You said yourself that you felt the prices would be higher selling the set at the same time. Of course the only way to prove you or I correct is to sell this coin by itself, which cannot be done so it just comes down to my opinion vs yours.

 

I bid $255 on the Lincoln. I didn't place a bid on any other coin from that proof set. Couple years ago when I'm more liberal when my my bids I would of bid to win it. I love the black frame with amazing color inside. I was also attracted to the orange peel surfaces.

[kryptonitecomics]

I know of at least a dozen collectors who would gladly have paid more than $200 for the Lincoln in question. I don't have a problem with the heavy handed comments from those who don't like the coin....have your opinion.

 

What I don't like are those folks who pop into a thread and start talking market values and stating someone might be buried in a coin. Please enlighten me as to your qualifications for making such a market determination? I sell a lot of this type of material and a lot of it goes for moon money whenever I list it so I think I know a bit more than most about true market values for moderns.

 

Also I just checked and there were 5 different bidders who bid $200 or more on the Lincoln.....

 

So as one of those you don't like I'm wondering how many of those 5 different bidders were also bidders on all the other coins. What I'm driving at is were these bidders really after that coin only or were they after the complete set. Also how many of those 5 were willing to go past the $300 level? It's very easy for you to pop in and throw out some numbers but that's quite meaningless without some context and background to have a better understanding of the whole bidding story.

 

And come to think of it why is it that only 5 bidders went above $200 if you know of at least a dozen that would have paid more than $200 for it? It would seem that you know of at least 7 people that sat on their hands which I find odd given that you feel this was such a desirable coin. Please enlighten me as you know so much about this section of the market.

 

Edited to add:

In response to your question about my qualifications as to market value I have already said that this is not a part of the market I participate in. But I do feel that on this single coin the buyer may be buried, maybe not as a set but as a single coin yes. You said yourself that you felt the prices would be higher selling the set at the same time. Of course the only way to prove you or I correct is to sell this coin by itself, which cannot be done so it just comes down to my opinion vs yours.

 

Just because a dozen or more people I know would have paid more than $200 doesn't mean all of the folks I know that collect this type of material saw the auction no? Whether the bidders were bidding on one or all of the coins have no barring...the coin is question was called to the mat with statements like the buyer is buried and I clearly proved that was not the case. This wasn't just a two man race...

 

As for my qualifications...I think I made that pretty clear...did you wake up this morning and forget that I am a volume seller on Ebay? This is what I do for a living and I have sold probably 50 modern toned Proof Lincolns in less than a year. If buying, submitting for grading, and selling this type of material doesn't qualify me to discuss market values then I don't know what else would.

 

Folks need to learn to state their opinions without throwing out their personal valuations...when they have no experience in such maters as it just a further attempt to be negative. I can guarantee 100% that if this coin sold alone it would still sell for $250+ and yes it could easily sell for over $300 again based on my experience.....so please put up your qualifications so that we may all be enlighten as to how to evaluate toned modern proof Lincolns in the future.

[coinsarefun]

Beautiful coins.....I watched each and every one of them at auction.

I don't think I have ever seen a Lincoln proof toned that super nice......I was tempted

to steal it on auction but I let it go as I had in mind a few collectors I know that probably was going for it .

 

 

Congrat's to whoever owns the coins!