Hoards and Bags of Eisenhowers ?

[TonerGuy]

I was talking yesterday with a dealer at a local show and we were conversing about future coin hoards.

 

I thought that the prevalence of hoards was likely to diminish with time. Who "hoards" coins anymore ? Perhaps we will see hoards of copper pennies due to the survivalist and copper fiends in the future but do you think there will be hoards of State Quarters or JFKs coming to market some day?

 

I dont even know if there are hoards of Ikes other there. I remember hearing about a hoard of Ikes coming to market within the past 10 yrs but I dont think it got much in the way of press. I thought I saw Shane selling some casino Ikes graded by ICG recently though. But I never heard about the hoard.

 

Do you think there are canvas bags of Ikes yet to be found ?

 

What will be the modern hoard ? Will a hoard of ASEs be found in 40 yrs ?

 

And how many coins will it take to achieve hoard status ? Will hoards become smaller ?

 

 

 

 

[AHFreak]

These are good questions, I have wondered the same recently.

 

I would imagine there are still banks that have an original bank bag or two buried in back rooms that nobody is aware of still... definitely Ikes, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were other, older coins as well. I read about a bank that found an original sealed mint bag of Ikes in a unused vault 3 years or so ago... didn't hear anything about the sale, but it did seem to get some initial interest, and whoever bought them paid a premium, one that I thought was crazy at the time. (not knowing much about numismatics....).

 

 

[e1cnr]

Banks are required to maintain a certain percentage of deposits as 'cash on hand'. There are many banks around the country that may be older or smaller that have some of this in coin rolls and bags. My local bank ordered rolls of state quarters to have on hand because a few customers wanted them. They still have some and I can buy them at face, but I do not want them. They don't care and as long as there is not space restriction in their vault. As a loss prevention tool, consider how many dollars a thief can carry of quarter rolls vs $100 bills.

 

Would you consider $10 K in IKE bags a hoard (10 bags of 1000 coins)?

[RWB]

A "hoard" is usually secret or known only to a few. Consider the reasons for hoarding and what is accomplished by hoarding.

[World Colonial]

What coins do you have in mind?

 

Is it just moderns? Given that the mintage of each date/denomination combination is almost exclusively in the hundreds of millions if not billions, I suspect there are more than a few of them. Especially Presidential and Sacagewea dollars since the US Mint's attempts to get the public to use them have been such a "smashing success".

 

But even if there are, I don't think it will be of any significance to the majority of collectors who are the most interested in these coins. I wouldn't expect many "grade rarities". I consider it more likely that any surprises will be for die varieties which are now considered "rare".

[cpm9ball]

I think that bank hoards of original Mint bags will become harder and harder to find unless they are stored away in a small privately owned bank. Larger corporate-owned banks are required to provide regular accounting for everything stored in their vaults.

 

Chris

[TonerGuy]

It looks like the Ikes might be stored in the Federal Reserve Banks...

 

http://www.frbservices.org/operations/currency/currency_depositing_examples.html#n_coin_deposits

 

"Susan B. Anthony, Native American and Presidential dollar coins may be bagged together, but they must be bagged separately from Eisenhower dollars. "

 

And it looks like you can still order Ikes (thru your bank)... here's a form for a bank to fill out to get Ikes (this form is Only for SF, LA and Phx though)

 

http://www.frbservices.org/files/forms/fedcash_services/pdf/sanfrancisco_quarters_faxsouth.pdf

 

I have a great relationship with the manager of my business bank. I am going to take this form in tomorrow and see if they can order me $1000 in Ikes.

 

I will let you know what they say... I guessing it will be no though.

 

As for the size of a hoard - well I guess that depends if you can still order bags of Ikes. If you can maybe it takes 100,000 Ikes to be considered a hoard. If you cant perhaps 20,000 Ikes is large enough accumulation. I know at small shows you would be lucky to find 200 non-graded circulation Ikes in dealers' inventory

 

 

[RWB]

I hear there are some empty underground vaults near Las Vegas available cheap.

[cpm9ball]

I hear there are some empty underground vaults near Las Vegas available cheap.

 

All of the good warehouses in Reno are gone.

 

Chris

[Conder101]

From brousing the FRB services website it does appear that you CAN order bags of Ikes from the Fed. In the information below they list Ikes in the section for depositing AND ordering with no indication that the Ikes CAN'T be ordered. The real problem is probably getting your bank to actually make the order. Most bank branches do not deal with the Fed directly, they deal with their own local main office and it is the one that deals with the Fed. If you can find out which office that is you might have better luck getting them to order for you.

 

I will admit that the only forms I have found that specifically include a listing for ordering Ikes ot from the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank.

 

 

Ordering Process and Standards

 

Frequency of Service

For each endpoint, the basic level of service is one deposit and one order of coin per week. The Federal Reserve Banks recognize that factors such as volume and cost may require less frequent service to some endpoints and more frequent service to others.

The Federal Reserve Banks may, at their discretion, partially fill orders to maintain coin inventories. We may refuse deposits, defer or reverse credit, and/or return deposits if an institution fails to comply with any of the terms of Operating Circular 2. Returns are at an institution's risk and expense.

 

 

Standard Depositing and Ordering Units

 

Denomination Bag Amount Bag Tag Color

Pennies $50 Red

Nickels $200 Blue

Dimes $1000 Green

Quarters $1000 Orange

Halves $1000 Buff

Dollars

Eisenhower Dollars $1000 Gray

Presidential/Native American/Susan B. Anthony Dollars $2000 Gray

[cladking]

There are some hoards of moderns out there but most hoards are the "older" coins (pre-'65). In aggregate the numbers of BU cents is quite large though most hoards are probably less than 10,000 rolls. But there are a lot of hoards and it affects every date from 1968 to 1980. After this savings of the coins is spottier and before ('65- 67) the number is a little lower.

 

Nickels are out there in very large nubers as well but quality is more of an issue since some dates of nickels tend to be very poor and very poor coins were saved in lower numbers. This affects something like the '71-P. All the nickels have spotty avilability with some relatively "common" and others quite unusual.

 

Dimes are hard to find. No date is anywhere near "common" and very few bags exist. The most common are from the late-'70's and there are fewer than a quarter million in rolls. Rolls have low prices due to the tiny demand and the propensity of people to build the rolls from mint sets.

 

Quarters are tougher than dimes but do have a common date; '76. At one time the '82 and '83 rolls could be considered "common" but most of these have been busted up now.

 

Half dollars are out there but every date isn't available and quality can be poor. Same for Ikes but these are a little more likely to survive in bags and rolls. SBA's probably aren't as common as I believed only a few years ago but they do exist in bags and rolls still. You'll know they are getting tough if you ever see the price of the '79-S start pulling away.

 

Hoards of circulated coinage isn't very important to moderns since these have been less commonly collected to date. Nice AU (AU-50) and better can still be assembled if you look at a lot of cents. Nickels sets are limited to XF- because of a few tough dates. Dimes are getting hard so figure mostly nice AU with several only VF. Quarters are VF. The larger coins can be assembled in AU-58 with a lot of effort.

 

There are hoards of all of moderns in circulated condition and this especially applies to pennies. Much of this is just cents sitting "temporarily" in jars but these coins are worth less than their value so some of these will never be redeemed and might be available to collectors if they ever want them. Only in recent years have the nickel and dime started piling up. This started around 2000 when their value began dropping so much that people would cream off the quarters and let the other coins accumulate. This affects even quarters now days but still quarters rarely sit longer than about four years because the accumulated value becomes high enough to make redemption attractive.

 

Large hoards of even circulated quarters exist but they too tend to not go all the way back to 1970 or so because otherwise they'd have been cashed in when the silver was culled out. Every once in a while you'll see the effects of these hoards on local circulating coins and can deduce the start and end dates. You can also see stories in the press of a new truck being purchased with quarters.

 

Most of the pre-'65 coinage has been spent by now but you'll still see nice BU or slider cents and nickels. Many of these bags are just "forgotten" and will be around a long time.

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

The Ikes I sold were from the Golden Nugget Casino Hoard.

 

 

Examples:

 

1971-D Ike "Golden Nugget Casino Hoard"

 

1972 ICG Golden Nugget Casino Ike

 

 

[TonerGuy]

From brousing the FRB services website it does appear that you CAN order bags of Ikes from the Fed. In the information below they list Ikes in the section for depositing AND ordering with no indication that the Ikes CAN'T be ordered. The real problem is probably getting your bank to actually make the order. Most bank branches do not deal with the Fed directly, they deal with their own local main office and it is the one that deals with the Fed. If you can find out which office that is you might have better luck getting them to order for you.

 

You are exactly right. I went to my branch today and luckily not only do I have a great relationship with the Branch Manager but also with the one teller that orders all of the coins for the branch.

 

It is a hassle to say the least. It took at least 30 minutes of begging with the manager and teller and a lot of mean stares from other customers just to get to the point of - yes you can order them. But we dont know if they will arrive.

 

And you have to order $2000 Ikes not just $1000. So I have ordered $2000 in Ikes. I have no idea if they will be delivered though. My bank's main vault manager didnt even know what an Ike was. He kept telling my friend (the teller who orders change) that they come mixed in with the new golden color dollars ( he was obviously speaking about SBAs) since they are the same size.

 

And then there is also the issue of my bank uses one armored car company and the Federal Reserve uses another. So I have to wait and see if the the Fed will play nice with my bank and deliver the coins.

 

I think they would be delivered next Wednesday so I have to wait until then to find out for sure.

[RWB]

Also, they don't want them back and they won't work in any vending machines.

[TonerGuy]

Also, they don't want them back and they won't work in any vending machines.

 

I had to promise the Bank Manager I would not be returning them if they are delivered.

[Nutmeg Coin]

I was talking to "the coin guy" who does a bunch of small shows last weekend. He said his ad has generated some interesting customers like a guy who had 2500 Ikes, and get this--the bank didn't want them! So he got 2500 Ikes for $2000! And in sorting through them he was finding some 40%ers.

[e1cnr]

Also, they don't want them back and they won't work in any vending machines.

 

they work great at fast food restaurants

 

and exotic dancers like large cold hard coin

[TonerGuy]

and exotic dancers like large cold hard coin

 

Yes I will need to make it rain!

[FadeToBlack]

I was getting bags of Ikes for a while, about 6 months, every week. I pulled about 4000 of the nicest (63 or better in '71 and '72 and 64 or better in '74-'78) ones I came across, so I suppose I have a little hoard going there. Rolled and bagged 'em. If I could resume ordering, I'd probably start right back up where I left off hoarding them en masse.

 

Unfortunately the head teller and manager that worked with me to ensure I was getting the Ikes delivered left the company. That was quite a cash cow while it lasted, I was finding 2 or so T2's per bag, more in some. The occasional silver coin was a nice surprise too. I slabbed a bunch of the T2's, all came back 63 and 64... I think ten total. Saved the nicest 64, sold the rest. Still have well over 100 raw T2's... including 3 UNC's I acquired recently and will send in for grading.

[TonerGuy]

I was getting bags of Ikes for a while, about 6 months, every week. I pulled about 4000 of the nicest (63 or better in '71 and '72 and 64 or better in '74-'78) ones I came across, so I suppose I have a little hoard going there. Rolled and bagged 'em. If I could resume ordering, I'd probably start right back up where I left off hoarding them en masse.

 

Unfortunately the head teller and manager that worked with me to ensure I was getting the Ikes delivered left the company. That was quite a cash cow while it lasted, I was finding 2 or so T2's per bag, more in some. The occasional silver coin was a nice surprise too. I slabbed a bunch of the T2's, all came back 63 and 64... I think ten total. Saved the nicest 64, sold the rest. Still have well over 100 raw T2's... including 3 UNC's I acquired recently and will send in for grading.

 

What was the time frame ? Recently ? Or is this going back several years ?

 

I will find out if Im getting Ikes or SBAs Tuesday when my order arrives. I tend to think it will be SBAs from the conversation my teller had with the woman that orders coin for all the branches. She keeps saying how these coins are mixed in with the Golden Dollars.

 

Unbelievable that people whose sole job is to manage millions of dollars in coins doesnt know what Ike dollars are....

[RWB]

Your bank has to pay to get the coins, and pay to return them. All the customer pays is face value.

[FadeToBlack]

Last year I was getting them. Went back in today and pressured management to order me more bags. I've got like $20k in my account there (it's my house down payment fund) so that allows me to have some pull... certainly more than I have anywhere else.

 

If you have a big, beefy account... tell them to get you Ikes or you will take your business elsewhere. I bet they'll figure it out then, no bank wants to lose a 5 figure deposit account that is hardly used.

 

A tip; if you are just searching and cashing them in, don't take them back to that bank... get an account elsewhere and dump them there. I have another bank that allows me to drop off sealed coinlok bags and they credit my account after Garda counts them, typically 4-5 business days after dropoff.

[orifdoc]

Interesting re the Ikes.......

 

As far as ASE's go, I'm sure there are more than a few monster boxes hanging out in random places.

[RWB]

I saw one hanging out next to a light pole the other day....the monster was chewing on a Volvo.

[19Lyds]

Will a hoard of ASEs be found in 40 yrs ?

If a "Hoard" of Silver Eagles is found in 40 years, you can bet your bippy that they be consumed with milk spotting and only worth spot plus a buck or two.

[TonerGuy]

Last year I was getting them. Went back in today and pressured management to order me more bags. I've got like $20k in my account there (it's my house down payment fund) so that allows me to have some pull... certainly more than I have anywhere else.

 

If you have a big, beefy account... tell them to get you Ikes or you will take your business elsewhere. I bet they'll figure it out then, no bank wants to lose a 5 figure deposit account that is hardly used.

 

A tip; if you are just searching and cashing them in, don't take them back to that bank... get an account elsewhere and dump them there. I have another bank that allows me to drop off sealed coinlok bags and they credit my account after Garda counts them, typically 4-5 business days after dropoff.

 

My local branch is cool with getting them for me. The teller in charge of ordering coin is already on board. The problem is she cant order them directly from the Fed Reserve. All orders have to go through the bank's vault manager - who is cool with it as well - she just doesnt know an Ike from an SBA.

 

But we will see on Tuesday if Ikes or SBAs show up. If they are SBAs they already agreed to take them back - unless of course they show up in an original mint sealed bag then I will keep them.

 

BTW - when your Ikes arrived where they in clear plastic bags or canvas and were any original from the mint ? I assume all of the original mint bags have been opened long ago.

[FadeToBlack]

Plastic bags with mixed dates and whatnot. I've never heard/seen of original bags being ordered in my time in the hobby (5ish years).

[19Lyds]

It looks like the Ikes might be stored in the Federal Reserve Banks...

 

http://www.frbservices.org/operations/currency/currency_depositing_examples.html#n_coin_deposits

 

"Susan B. Anthony, Native American and Presidential dollar coins may be bagged together, but they must be bagged separately from Eisenhower dollars. "

 

And it looks like you can still order Ikes (thru your bank)... here's a form for a bank to fill out to get Ikes (this form is Only for SF, LA and Phx though)

 

http://www.frbservices.org/files/forms/fedcash_services/pdf/sanfrancisco_quarters_faxsouth.pdf

 

I have a great relationship with the manager of my business bank. I am going to take this form in tomorrow and see if they can order me $1000 in Ikes.

 

I will let you know what they say... I guessing it will be no though.

 

As for the size of a hoard - well I guess that depends if you can still order bags of Ikes. If you can maybe it takes 100,000 Ikes to be considered a hoard. If you cant perhaps 20,000 Ikes is large enough accumulation. I know at small shows you would be lucky to find 200 non-graded circulation Ikes in dealers' inventory

 

I used the attached form to talk with my bank and encouraged them to get beyond what they think they can order and what they think the can't order (since I've asked this one before).

 

As a result, I've been able to order a $1,000 bag. She cautioned me that these were "loose" and not rolled up expecting me to somehow not be interested.

 

Quite the contrary. Loose or rolled, I'm interested.

[wygold]

Back In 2011, Littleton Coin purchased 223 original mint sewn bags that was tucked away in a bank in Montana. Dubbed the "Big Sky Hoard". A prominent Montana family picked up 223,000 Ike's and stored them in the basement of the bank and left them there for 30 years. Littleton heard about the hoard that they went to Montana and purchased them. I happened to get one from eBay a couple of months ago for under 10 bucks, would have been nice if it had the display box and COA, but I got my eye on one now.

 

1976-D Type 2 $1 MS 65

[19Lyds]

It looks like the Ikes might be stored in the Federal Reserve Banks...

 

http://www.frbservices.org/operations/currency/currency_depositing_examples.html#n_coin_deposits

 

"Susan B. Anthony, Native American and Presidential dollar coins may be bagged together, but they must be bagged separately from Eisenhower dollars. "

 

And it looks like you can still order Ikes (thru your bank)... here's a form for a bank to fill out to get Ikes (this form is Only for SF, LA and Phx though)

 

http://www.frbservices.org/files/forms/fedcash_services/pdf/sanfrancisco_quarters_faxsouth.pdf

 

I have a great relationship with the manager of my business bank. I am going to take this form in tomorrow and see if they can order me $1000 in Ikes.

 

I will let you know what they say... I guessing it will be no though.

 

As for the size of a hoard - well I guess that depends if you can still order bags of Ikes. If you can maybe it takes 100,000 Ikes to be considered a hoard. If you cant perhaps 20,000 Ikes is large enough accumulation. I know at small shows you would be lucky to find 200 non-graded circulation Ikes in dealers' inventory

 

Well, sadly, it looks like this form has been taken down.

 

Did anybody save a copy??