Coin ideas thread July 2014

[Stephon-migration]

Since the CCAC has been throwing ideas out concerning our coinage this week and which are certainly thought provoking and the mint's new product releases, I thought I would chime in with some ideas of my own for everyone to ponder.

 

If the design for the 2015 ultra high relief gold coin proves to be successful, then replacing the cheap version of Saint Gaudens striding liberty with a low relief version of the obverse of the 2015 ultra high relief on the American Gold Eagle should be considered. This way everyone could own a gold version of the 2015 ultra high relief gold coin design in some form.

 

Since the Kennedy Half is now an NCLT coin and is not being produced for circulation: permanently restore the 1964 obverse and reverse (judging from pictures, the US Mint did not restore the 1964 reverse in any of the 50th anniversary editions of the coin) of the Kennedy Half Dollar and restore the mintmarks to the reverse of the coin as was in 1964. Also make only 90% silver versions and no clad versions since there really isn't much of a point to them as they are not being circulated and the clad composition will be done away with soon enough.

 

Congress should also pass a bill authorizing Indian Head $2.50 and $5 coins to be made as an NCLT coin which the mint would sell in bags and rolls and include in the mint and proof sets. The composition of the Indian Head $2.50 and $5 coins would be 77% copper, 12% zinc, 7% maganese, and 4% nickel which is the same composition as the outer layers of the Sacagawea and Presidential dollars. A base metal Indian Head $2.50 and $5 would certainly raise interest in the Indian Head $2.50 and $5 gold coins made from 1908-1929.

 

 

I wonder what you all think!

[Ryan S.]

My biggest qualm with our coinage would be the denominations.

For a long time they've toyed with the idea of getting rid of the Cent and altering the composition of the Nickel, but I think we would be wise to adjust our coins for inflation by adding a "0" at the end of each denomination....

[jpcienkus]

Stephon,

 

I really don't want to see the mint to continue to regurgitate old designs. I agree that they should change the Kennedy so that the relief is higher than the current version; however, I don't want to see the Accented Hair version come back. By releasing old designs, I feel it cheapens the them. It no longer makes those old designs special.

 

I'd rather see them work on new artistic designs that symbolize our countries values, replacing the current bust designs, rather than rehash the old ones.

[Stephon-migration]

I don't believe that a base metal version of an old design would cheapen the originals, because the originals in this case would always have gold in them, something the proposed base metal Indian Head $2.50 and $5 would not have. I think that there would be increased interest in the gold series made from 1908-1929 by having base metal versions available because it would cause people to desire the gold versions of the same coins. I'm thinking back to when I started collecting and I started collecting clad half dollars, clad dimes, and clad quarters and eventually I started desiring the older silver versions of the clad coins I collected.

 

I also don't see any cheapening of the originals because there hasn't been a regularly issued $2.50 and $5 since 1929 and if anything, the denominations are picking up where they left off.

[bsshog40]

The only thing I see with remaking old designs or changing versions of our exixting one's is it keeps driving the aftermarket stuff even more for the moderns. Everytime a new design is made, here come the goldplated, holographs, colored and platinum plated coins. These saturate the market bad enough. The mint has been making soo many changes to our circulating coins lately, the aftermarket companies are making a killing in the hobby with altered coins that are worth nothing.

[Stephon-migration]

Bsshog40,

 

The intent of the suggestion of having base metal versions of the Indian Head $2.50 and $5 is to make the gold versions, like the one that you recently bought and posted a thread about, more valuable in the future as the base metal coins would drive up interest in the gold coins. The Indian Head $2.50 and $5 don't have the same respect and the same popularity that the Saint Gaudens coins have and this is what my idea is trying to correct.

[bsshog40]

Bsshog40,

 

The intent of the suggestion of having base metal versions of the Indian Head $2.50 and $5 is to make the gold versions, like the one that you recently bought and posted a thread about, more valuable in the future as the base metal coins would drive up interest in the gold coins. The Indian Head $2.50 and $5 don't have the same respect and the same popularity that the Saint Gaudens coins have and this is what my idea is trying to correct.

I hear what you're saying. From my own experience, most collectors I know, are of age that they are well aware of the classic designs and either already buy them or have no interest at all. Most new/young collectors are modern coin collectors. They either don't have the money for the old gold or have very limited knowledge on classic coins and stick to the moderns more. Jmo

[Stephon-migration]

But it wouldn't hurt to make it convenient for young collectors to explore classic designs and learn the history and uniqueness of old coin designs and instill the desire to own the old gold, as bsshog40 calls it, when they have the financial means to own the old gold later on. If we have young collectors that only are interested in the moderns, what does that do to the classics in the long run? More than likely, hurt the value of the classic designs.

 

We are also in a world where pennies mean nothing, nickels mean nothing, dimes mean nothing, and the quarter only has the purchasing power that a nickel had 30 years ago. Higher denomination base metal coins that relate to the price of small purchases which coins are used for today and in the future are something that future generations will be able to relate to.

 

Also if inflation continues the way it does, we might need a $2.50 coin or a $5 coin for circulation and having it as NCLT helps get the public and the government thinking about the future of our money.

[jpcienkus]

But it wouldn't hurt to make it convenient for young collectors to explore classic designs and learn the history and uniqueness of old coin designs and instill the desire to own the old gold, as bsshog40 calls it, when they have the financial means to own the old gold later on. If we have young collectors that only are interested in the moderns, what does that do to the classics in the long run? More than likely, hurt the value of the classic designs.

 

We are also in a world where pennies mean nothing, nickels mean nothing, dimes mean nothing, and the quarter only has the purchasing power that a nickel had 30 years ago. Higher denomination base metal coins that relate to the price of small purchases which coins are used for today and in the future are something that future generations will be able to relate to.

 

Also if inflation continues the way it does, we might need a $2.50 coin or a $5 coin for circulation and having it as NCLT helps get the public and the government thinking about the future of our money.

 

IMO, this is part of the evolution of a collector. Some coin usually draws you in and then after a time, you learn about all the other coins available. I think it's a natural process for someone interested in the hobby and making clad versions of old designs won't change it one bit. All you need to do is buy the professional edition of the Redbook and it opens you up to all U.S. coins minted.

 

It seems we live in a world of "now". There was a poster earlier this year trying to sell/preach a similar idea. My experience of his posts were, I can't afford the real old collectible stuff, so the Mint needs to make ME what I want.

 

Part of the allure of these coins is having the discipline to save your money so you can reach for that next level. Sorry, you will not convince me that clad versions of the classic coin designs is a good thing for this hobby.

 

I would LOVE TO OWN this coin. I simply can't afford it. Right now, I can't even justify saving the money to own one. Even with that, I do NOT want the U.S. Mint to make me a modern version.

 

[Stephon-migration]

For the record, I have the means to own a gold Indian Head $2.50 or $5 and a lot of the other real old collectible stuff, as jpcienkus puts it. I have been collecting for many years and have progressed from several different levels of collecting. This isn't to better to cater to my personal interest, but to cater to the needs of the hobby to better adopt to the modern generations. The modern generation of people are a convenience oriented driven group of people, unlike my generation and the generations preceding my generation and for the hobby to grow and thrive in the future, we need to better cater to a convenience oriented society.

 

Also with inflation and the trends with inflation, as I said in a previous post, we may need a $2.50 coin or a $5 coin, just like many people think we need a functioning $1 coin now. An NCLT Quarter and Half Eagle opens the door to that discussion in the future. It never hurts to think about the future and what the future might bring.

[jpcienkus]

For the record, I have the means to own a gold Indian Head $2.50 or $5 and a lot of the other real old collectible stuff, as jpcienkus puts it. I have been collecting for many years and have progressed from several different levels of collecting. This isn't to better to cater to my personal interest, but to cater to the needs of the hobby to better adopt to the modern generations. The modern generation of people are a convenience oriented driven group of people, unlike my generation and the generations preceding my generation and for the hobby to grow and thrive in the future, we need to better cater to a convenience oriented society.

 

Also with inflation and the trends with inflation, as I said in a previous post, we may need a $2.50 coin or a $5 coin, just like many people think we need a functioning $1 coin now. An NCLT Quarter and Half Eagle opens the door to that discussion in the future. It never hurts to think about the future and what the future might bring.

 

My apologies Stephon. I made a mistake in seeing your request/ideas in the same light as two previous posters to this site. I didn't think you were the same, but similar.

 

I still don't want to see clad versions of old designs resurrected by the U.S. Mint.

[Stephon-migration]

To add on to the ideas I posted yesterday, I also believe that the penny should be made an NCLT coin like the half dollar and $1 coin that would only be available at a premium by the mint. This way the penny can be eliminated without having to go through congress to get it approved. I don't understand why everyone is so complacent with a coin that costs double what its worth to produce. The words of the President when he says that its time to eliminate the penny mean nothing unless he can direct the US Mint to make it an NCLT coin which would cause pennies to slowly disappear from circulation.

[orifdoc]

... I don't understand why everyone is so complacent with a coin that costs double what its worth to produce...

 

The American populace and Washington DC abandoned sense and reason decades ago.

[Stephon-migration]

... I don't understand why everyone is so complacent with a coin that costs double what its worth to produce...

 

The American populace and Washington DC abandoned sense and reason decades ago.

 

What bothers me is that everyone thinks legislation is necessary to get rid of the penny when they can just cut to the chase and make it an NCLT coin or have one year where the only way to get the penny would be the mint and proof sets (like they did with the Kennedy Half in 1987).

[RWB]

"...clad versions of old designs resurrected by the U.S. Mint."

 

Excellent opportunity for gold or silver plated fakes. Any crooks who read this thread are likely drooling in anticipation.

 

PS: If collectors find a series unpopular, making more of it will not change the situation.

[Stephon-migration]

"...clad versions of old designs resurrected by the U.S. Mint."

 

Excellent opportunity for gold or silver plated fakes. Any crooks who read this thread are likely drooling in anticipation.

 

PS: If collectors find a series unpopular, making more of it will not change the situation.

 

I see where you are coming from. Also how would it be a good opportunity for gold or silver plated fakes, I never thought of that one?

[Bob Flaminio]

My biggest qualm with our coinage would be the denominations.

 

Here's what I would do, if I were pope o' da Mint:

 

I agree with Ryan S. about the denominations. The half cent was eliminated in 1857. In 2014 money, 1/2c in 1857 is worth about 12c today. That means that in 1857, one cent, the smallest denomination deemed worthy of minting, is equivalent to a quarter today.

 

So, eliminate pennies, nickels, and dimes. Round all cash transactions to the nearest quarter (half the time up, half down).

 

Kill the dollar bill, and put dollar coins (Sackies and Prexies) into circulation. Every GAO study shows that replacing paper with metal saves millions if not billions of dollars. Only our stubborn attachment to the past prevents it. Just do it.

 

Then, taking it further, make a $2 and $5 circulating coin (while killing the respective bills). Go to a vending machine lately? Most every one has items up into the $2-$3 range. Coins would make these transactions much easier, and increase overall utility of the coinage system.

 

The result would be a four coin system: 25c, $1, $2, $5 -- but coins with real value, not the pocket lint we carry today.

[Stephon-migration]

Your idea isn't a terrible idea. My proposal for having the mint make base metal Indian Head $2.50 and $5 coins is to target the need for a $2 and a $5 circulating coin down the road. My proposal isn't about reissuing classic coin designs because I can't afford the original gold designs or to cheapen the original gold versions, but to tap into the need for a $2 and a $5 coin, and thus a coin with real value and to make a coin series with huge popularity potential more popular. One thing I was thinking was that since the Indian Head design is the most recent circulating $2.50 and $5 coin design, why not continue using it, it isn't a bad design and it is a unique design because of the sunken design and although it doesn't have the same respect as the Saint Gaudens designs, it has a substantial following and has huge popularity potential.

[RWB]

Beyond people gold plating the things and ripping off people, the sunk relief Pratt $2.50 and $5 were mechanically awful to strike. There was simply not enough metal flow to produce good looking coins, and to produce the surface hardening necessary in a gold coin. Taken as a CuNi or clad version, the same problems would be encountered.

 

The idea for a more practical set of coin denominations makes sense to me. Maybe $0.10, $0.25, $1.00, $2.00 and $5.00. However, using silver would not be good unless "someone" plans to support the price of silver at some fixed level. Otherwise, a silver coin will vanish from circulation.

[Stephon-migration]

The proposed Indian Head $2.50 and $5 wouldn't be a CuNi or clad. It would be the same metal composition as the outer golden layers of the Sacagawea and Presidential dollars which would give the coins a golden color just like the Sacagawea and Presidential dollars.

 

The reason why I suggested the mint make the half dollar only in silver because no one will ever spend them as they are too big for vending machines and are poorly circulated for the past 50 years. I am not proposing a silver circulating coin, only that there is a silver half dollar that is made as a collector product as the half dollar has only been a collector product since 2002 and that should be made even more permanent.

[RWB]

The metal does not matter -- it is the mechanical that overrules.

[Stephon-migration]

If the Indian Head pieces were too difficult to strike; then maybe perhaps a Buffalo $5 piece that would be made out of the same golden colored composition as the Sacagawea and Presidential $1 coins. Since a $5 gold coin's size is similar to the nickel, this wouldn't be a terrible idea. What you could then do is discontinue the American Gold Buffalo and propose a new design for our .9999 fine gold buillion coins.